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Why are Titanians viewed as so good

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DrDoomsday112 DrDoomsday112's picture
Why are Titanians viewed as so good
I know they have brushed up on this in later books. But i still feel that this game has a huge leftist bias. Why is it that the socialists in this game are viewed as so goodly and humanitarian when actual socialist governments in the real world are poor hellholes. As someone who had family that lived through Communism, Socialism is not this utopia that the book depicts them. It is still impossible even in a setting where intelligence can be improved and there are AGI and shit. It is still a completely unpractical and dangerous ideology that leads to poverty and totalitarianism every time.It breaks immersion for me alot, i know in my game i always depict the Titanians are Communists were people live in squalor, the spend up to ten years waiting to resleeve with bad conditions and the government is totalitarian. Since Socialism is still a totalitarian ideology. I really don't think its fair to depict the capitalists as slave owners and Socialists as these liberators or something. It totally ignores the damage that has been done to countries in which Socialism has been practiced. It also breaks immersion alot, it is very clear the people who wrote this book are probably Socialists themselves which is a shame because i feel that is the thing that is really holding this game back from greatness and going down in history as a classic RPG. Also do not mention Sweden or Canada. They are zoos, i live in one right now. It is a very backwards system, a very poor country and we are overtaxed to death for a healthcare that is practically third world. There is also huge government corruption here that the country isn't equipped to handle. People in Socialist countries still are very poor compared to most other countries and it is very hard to escape it.
sysop sysop's picture
It's worth noting that there
It's worth noting that there is a difference between a Marxist–Leninist socialist state and a social democracy such as those following the Nordic model*. And worth noting that the concept of socialism predates that of Marx by a good 100 years. The Titanians are, at least in text, far closer to the later than the former. But your home game is of course yours to do with as you want, so you should feel free to make the changes that suit your players and your needs as a GM. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
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CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
I will reply with a quote
I will reply with a quote from 4chan. Not necessarily about the good of socialism as I am from Poland, but about economical viability of "communism" or moneyless systems in EP-like future.
The price of a product can be broken down, roughly, into four constituents: materials, design, manufacturing, and transportation. There are costs involved in every step of bringing a product to existence. Some of these have to do with the maintenance of equipment and such, but a substantial portion of it is just compensating the people involved in the steps. In the case of an iPhone, you've got the Congolese miners procuring the metals for the electronics, the Indian code monkeys writing the OS, the Chinese kids who put the thing together, and the fifteen different people in the transportation business who get them from a fatctory in Beijing to an Apple Store in Oregon. They'd all like to get paid. There's also a little that gets added on top of the actual expenses at every step because somebody is trying to turn a profit; that's capitalism. Now fast forward to the 22nd century. Everything is automated. That iEcto in your hand was made in a fabricator in your habitat, out of materials mined by drones. The material and manufacturing expenses are negligible, and there are no transportation costs because the item was made on-site. The only thing of real value attached to it is immaterial: somebody came up with the concept, wrote the code, and compiled the instructions for the fabber to make it. That's how ideas are worth more than physical items. You may, if you're not a grubby innersys corp shill committed to preserving your rapidly antiquating resource allocation system at all costs, come to the conclusion that there's really no point in doing commerce with dimes and bottlecaps where resources and manufacturing is concerned, and instead make the maintenance of the means of production and resource procurement a community responsibility. And, taking it further, you may decide to stop charging people for the work you put in your code or dragon dildo blueprint since you don't need to receive compensation anymore to survive.
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DrDoomsday112 DrDoomsday112's picture
"democracy is indispensable
"democracy is indispensable to socialism" -Vladimir Lenin Basically that right there proves your wrong. It doesn't matter what party a given person votes for when they are all the same. You know in Communist Czechoslovakia we got a vote too. That didn't change anything, same with the Soviet Union or North Korea. Just because something is democratic doesn't mean it is good or anything or that it is livable for common day life. I have already stated not to mention Scandinavian countries or Canada because it hasn't worked, it has made everyone in the society poor and it steals money from private citizens and business. It has utterly failed in every regard and is another reason why i am leaving Canada and will never look back. Also the last comment from the Polish guy proved my basic point. In this kinda setting goods and services would be extraordinarily cheap, it doesn't eliminate the market. The market will always exist adn a system that seeks to go around the market will always fail and miserably so. I don't feel that players should fix your game for you. That is the job of the game designers not me.
sysop sysop's picture
Well if you're not interested
Well if you're not interested in any of the historical, or social economic theory arguments to be provided... And that's a first for me: "Here's my argument but you can't use any counter arguments or provide any facts grounded in reality if they don't agree with me!"... which just doesn't seem very fair. It's not like you're going to be able to change the game developer's opinions on economics by yelling at them and refusing to allow them to present their reasoning. So basically... I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish by posting here. It sounds like you've already made up your mind, so I'm not gonna try further. So, I guess, you do you.
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DrDoomsday112 DrDoomsday112's picture
LOL Who is going to pay for
LOL Who is going to pay for all this free crap your demanding? Because i have lived through it you dumb westerner, everyone will go broke if the government taxes you like they do in Socialist countries. How else are you going to pay for your "free resleeving".LOL You are ignoring the entire reason why people immigrated to the US and Canada back in the 60-70s to begin with. It isn't for more socialism. LOL It isn't about fairness though, who is going to pay for this? Either way it would still drive prices through the roof since everyone is being taxed to death. Because their reasoning makes no economic or common sense. LOL If you want all these freebies then the state would expand to retarded levels. I didn't expect to, i just pointed out how this is supposed to be a dark future here. So wouldn't it be more appropriate to portray all the factions as basic douche bags. LOL Why do you pussies always argue through feelings. Socialism has been tried a billion times before it has never worked and people starve shortly before going broke. I don't see how the future would change that. Imagine this. Lets say your country made a socialist policy for bread... Ok that leaves alot of questions here. What kind of bread should the government provide? White bread, sliced bread, rye bread, bannana bread or cheese bread? How will the government know? They can conduct surveys, but they will not get accurate results from those surveys. So that is when Socialist governments decide to pick for them. Either way it will result in less people having bread and more people going broke for a crappy government system. Most people are also not that interested in politics so i don't see how something being democratic changes anything. Like even the Consortium is a democracy. But it is still shit. So i don't see how the same logic wouldn't apply for socialists. I have heard the propaganda before from my own government and seriously its fucking old and tired. Once you start actually paying taxes you will change your mind.
DrDoomsday112 DrDoomsday112's picture
The government would also not
The government would also not know when a person wants to have a big family barbecue or an ice cream party or whatever. So again it would make everyone broke. Just basic economics here.
DrDoomsday112 DrDoomsday112's picture
Like especially when you
Like especially when you depict me and my family as slave owners lol, like seriously go fuck yourself you little pussy westerner. Like you do realize under a socialist system everyone is a slave, except for the people running the system. That will always be the only people benefited by socialism. That is why the immigration crisis is happening here in Canada, it even is happening in the game. It will collapse under that pressure as Canada and Scandinavian countries are right now. That is also why the government wants them so badly, because they want fresh slaves for their crappy system that puts everyone at risk.
kindalas kindalas's picture
Goodbuy DrDoomsday112
DrDoomsday112 wrote:
LOL Who is going to pay for all this free crap your demanding? Because i have lived through it you dumb westerner, [snip]
You are clearly confused as to how behaving on the forums works. You are treating people here without respect. You are insulting entire groups of people. You are woefully ignorant of how political systems work both in theory and in reality. And you aren't adding anything of value to this community. [color=red] Enjoy your permanent ban.[/color]
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