What would you like to see in an Argonauts mini-book?

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jackgraham jackgraham's picture
What would you like to see in an Argonauts mini-book?
Our latest stretch goal for the Transhuman Kickstarter is Argonauts, a short supplement fleshing out the Argonauts faction for players and GMs. What are your burning questions? What would you love to see Brian Cross cover in this supplement?
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Who are the high reputation
Who are the high reputation Argonauts that everyone has heard of? Who are the men/women/sentient squirrels behind the public front? Why might a Firewall agent be affiliated with the Argonauts? What are the public motivations/propaganda that they use to reach new people? Are there cliques within the Argonauts? How do they differ from one another? Are there any secret cliques within the faction, perhaps similar to Firewall? How much influence do the Argonauts have in the day to day lives of people throughout the solar system? How about through the gates?
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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
inner working of the faction
What's the hierarchic structure of the Argonaut? is it pyramidal? Or a rysome of ad-hoc department with heads elected according to their R-Rep and published materials or credentials? And for the GM, what are the dirty secrets of the Argonauts? do they have a telepathically able giant head sleeved AGI? Do their formerly crutch ridden leader have a grudge against some reach Hypercorp mogul playboy? Do they work with terrorists to finance themselves? And like Code said, who are the most notorious Argonauts? the ones that are often sought for talk shows and mesh broadcast interviews Is there some that we know are alive in the real world today, like Michio Kaku? A fork of Richard Hawkins? a tulpa (fictionnal character made real by way of root AI and psychosurgery) called Michael "Mr Terrific" Holt, T.O. Morrow, Tony Stark or Reed Richards?
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Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
I agree with most of what
I agree with most of what they said above. I'd like to know stuff you can use for adventures, both specific hooks but also general stuff. What form does "crime" take and how does it work, is it only the obvious like scientific spying and falsifying data or something else? (Which reminds me, I'd love to see some info on "rep crime"). What would make them meddle in other factions' business? What makes other factions meddle in their business?
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
a few excerpts about
a few excerpts about Argonauts... While primarily an open organization, the argonauts are rumored to ultimately report to an elite inner circle. Supporting this theory is the existence of the medeans, the organization’s clandestine paramilitary wing, performing bodyguard services to high level argonauts and protecting the group’s assets. 1) who are the inner circle The servers are also home to the Medean Apollo project, a massive data-gathering and pattern-matching predictive service that has earned the faction’s paramilitary arm, the Medeans, a reputation for precognition. 2) What does a medean look like stat/tech wise 3) How does the Apollo project advise/direct the Medeans? Lastly, right now I feel a scientist/researcher type character is a skill monkey but not much more, In a setting where human technology is supposed to be skyrocketing with major breakthroughs happening almost daily, I'm kind of suprised there is no system for experimental tech. I'd really like to see something where a scientist/researcher can improve existing tech... "so ya need a functioning pod the size and appearance of a child's action figure... humm.. had a buddy working on minaturization in Markov... I think I can have a woking prototype for you within a week, but it wont be cheap" etc. so... 4) a functioning system for creating/using expiremental tech.
"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
nick012000 nick012000's picture
What does your typical
What does your typical Argonaut do for a living, other than vague "science stuff"?

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

ScienceGuy ScienceGuy's picture
Argonauts requests
Assorted things I'd be interested to see: - details/examples on some cutting edge Argonaut research projects - more details on Markov. I know for a fact our Firewall team would *love* to egocast there and have a poke around! - discussion on the grand plans (if any) of the Argonauts. How do they see the future of transhumanity? How actively do they seek to influence this? (disclaimer: I've not read the GM secrets in the back of the main book, as our GM asked us not to. So all good if this info exists already :-) ) - more discussion on the specifics of how different Argonaut factions view the open sourcing of data/research/technology. Specifically, how do they feel about open sourcing things that are potentially/obviously dangerous, like TITAN tech or knowledge derived from TITAN tech? Or technology with an obvious x-threat potential. - detailed discussion of relations between Firewall and the Argonauts. How does the secrecy of the former play with the openness of the latter? - more details/discussion on the sorts of goodies one can find in Argonaut open archives - factions within the Argonauts - Some goodies for more advanced science-based characters to upgrade to (science-related traits? Maybe a couple of Argonaut-specific morphs or implants? Some specialise scientific equipment, maybe? Tricorder :-) )
Decivre Decivre's picture
I noticed that the stretch
I noticed that the stretch goal listing at the Transhuman page calls the Argonaut book "Minibook: Prometheans". Did you just leak to us a potential future stretch goal? Because if so, I'm all over it.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Decivre wrote:I noticed that
Decivre wrote:
I noticed that the stretch goal listing at the Transhuman page calls the Argonaut book "Minibook: Prometheans". Did you just leak to us a potential future stretch goal? Because if so, I'm all over it.
They're the same book. Apparently we don't have consensus on a working title yet. :)
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Details on Medeans their
Details on Medeans their armed wing. Description of Markov. Some GM secrets-for example how much was known about ETI's before the Fall in connection to Project Ozma(Sunward has a hint that something was known), or perhaps some alien artifacts or deals with strange groups Argonauts have. There was a long topic on them here before: http://eclipsephase.com/argonauts-0
[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
piotrus piotrus's picture
What I'd like to see:
What I'd like to see: * some hooks for Argonaut adventures * discussion of some issues that Argonauts are concerned about, not only generics, but some specific names to throw around (EP versions of SOPA, ACTA, etc.) * more on daily life as an Argonaut: what is "work"? How does an Argonaut habitat look like? * some Argonaut slang/jargon
Lilith Lilith's picture
Details details
I second the request for more details on the Medeans; their structure, organization, methods of operation, etc. Some general Argonaut views regarding Exsurgent/TITANs threats and research would be interesting too, especially in regards to their open-source views. Their relationships with Firewall and/or Oversight/OZMA would also be dandy.
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
A writeup of the origins of
A writeup of the origins of the Argonauts would be nice - it would give context for Argonaut characters' off-screen projects and would probably make them a bit easier to play around the table. The origins of the group would help explain why cliques and individuals do what they do. The Argonauts' official stance on certain technologies, from nanoswarms to mini- and microfacture in the Inner System. Political activities carried out by the Argonauts: Chances are, they have some members who are policy wonks attempting to influence the PC's policies... A selection of programming broadcast on Radio Free Argosy. I cannot help but wonder if [url=http://rantmedia.ca/]Rant Media[/url] would still be around... Stereotypes of the Argonauts held by other factions. Technologies commonly employed by your average Argonaut-in-the-habitat. How Argonauts make a living outside of transitional or reputation-based economies.
dark.blue.nine dark.blue.nine's picture
What the Argonauts Know, Not Just What They Are
jackgraham wrote:
Our latest What are your burning questions? What would you love to see Brian Cross cover in this supplement?
FWIW, this thread made me register after lurking on this forum for a couple years. Scientists lead fairly uninteresting lives, especially compared to the average role-playing character. But what scientists know can be very interesting, especially in the context of a high-tech, conspiracy-laden, mystery-driven, alien horrors game. Thus, the argonauts sourcebook should spend as much time going over what the argonauts know (or think they know) about some of the central mysteries of Eclipse Phase universe, as it does going over the argonauts themselves. This is an opportunity for the EP team to pull the curtain back a bit (or throw out options) on things like the nature of: [b]Powerful Seed AIs[/b] -- The argonauts work with Prometheans. What's that like, from the argonauts' perspective? Do the argonauts interact with the Prometheans in virtual space? Do the Prometheans manifest in the real world? If so, how? As a telepathic nimbus of mist and light? As a superhuman specimen that an exhuman would be envious of? As a giant, talking, moving, blob of computronium? Or all of the above, depending on the Promethean in question? The Prometheans also fought the TITANs. What was that like from the Prometheans' perspective, at least in terms that a transhuman might be able to comprehend? A lightning-fast, virtual knife-fight where years of codebreaking were compressed into a microsecond? Or a slow, brutal, real-world war with hyper-advanced weapons? Was contact with the Exsurgent TITANs ecstatic, fascinating, frightful, or perplexing to the Prometheans? [b]The Exsurgent Virus, the Gates, and the TITANs' Fate[/b] -- Presumably, the Argonauts know that the TITANs were infected with the Exsurgent Virus, from the Prometheans' battles with the TITANs during the Fall, if nothing else. The Argonauts also presumably have an interest in the alien biology and physics exhibited by the Exsurgent Virus, as well as the alien physics of the Gates. Are the Argonauts actively experimenting with this alien science? Do they maintain samples of broken TITANs, exsurgent transhumans, and/or the virus itself? Were the Argonauts/Prometheans key to deciphering Gate programming? Are they trying to recreate a Gate? Do the Argonauts/Prometheans think that some action of theirs caused the TITANs to retreat, or do they think that the Exsurgent Virus drove the TITANs to leave the solar system? Did the Argonauts decipher TITAN transmissions during the Fall? Are they still picking up TITAN transmissions? (Or even in contact with TITANs?) What are the Argonauts'/Prometheans' hypotheses about how and where the TITANs went and their motivations? Do the Argonauts/Prometheans think that the TITANs are now cows being led to alien slaughter? Or that the TITANs have artificially evolved into some higher lifeform? Or that the Exsurgent infection is fatal and that the TITANs are all dead, soon to be followed by all of transhumanity if the Virus is not stopped? [b]The ETI[/b] -- In fighting the TITANs, did the Prometheans uncover knowledge of the source of the Exsurgent Virus and have the Argonauts found (or are searching for) the Bracewell Probe? Do some of the Argonauts/Prometheans surmise that the Exsurgent Virus or other ETI intervention is behind the evolution of the Factors and the extinction of all extrasolar intelligences? Based on the Exsurgent Virus and perhaps the Bracewell Probe and/or extrasolar discoveries, what are the Argonauts'/Prometheans' hypotheses about the age, location, size, capabilities, and intent of the ETI? Are the Argonauts/Prometheans actively (likely telescopically) searching for other signs of the ETI? Do the Argonauts/Prometheans surmise that runaway intelligence is what trapped the TITANs and triggered the Bracewell Probe? Are the Argonauts/Prometheans preparing to defend themselves/transhumanity when the next transhuman singularity triggers a response from the ETI? Is that the ultimate purpose of the Medeans and the Argonauts' inner circle? The argonauts sourcebook doesn't, and probably shouldn't, answer these questions definitively, and the nature of the scientific process, as well as multiple leading Argonauts and Prometheans, lends itself to multiple hypotheses and theories. A GM section that provides different options, in terms of Argonaut/Promethean hypotheses/theories, for describing and dealing with these central mysteries in the EP universe would be great. I could even see an accompanying rules section -- similar to high-level rules in other role-playing games -- for interacting with and fighting entities like Prometheans, TITANs, and ETI agents like the Bracewell Probe. My 2 qubits... hope they're useful.
The eternal silence of these infinite spaces fills me with dread. -- Blaise Pascal
lets adapt lets adapt's picture
I didn't realize I want this
I didn't realize I want this argonauts mini-book as badly I do until after reading these suggestions.
Decivre Decivre's picture
jackgraham wrote:They're the
jackgraham wrote:
They're the same book. Apparently we don't have consensus on a working title yet. :)
Then THAT is what I want to know more about. The Prometheans are the only benevolent seed AI around, and I'd like more info about them to make them a bigger presence in my games. Maybe even detail a few along with personality traits. No need for stats, though. Never stat out a being that is meant to be far beyond mortals.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
ScienceGuy ScienceGuy's picture
Further thoughts...
I second the suggestion for a functioning system for creating/using experimental tech :-). I also took a closer look at the equipment lists in the various books and there isn't actually too much specific science gear. For example: Generic science scanner (eg. tricoder) Science AI Specialist lab Specialist tools/containment for studying eg. TITAN tech Science nanoswarm
Aggrotron Aggrotron's picture
What makes Promethians
What makes Promethians friendly? I understand it was their development but what did the Argonauts do to separate them from other similarly-focused superintelligences? I also want more science-focused gear. While there's a lot of good stuff (chem-sniffers, eyes that have massive magnification, etc) to have more options would be pretty rad, keeping with the hard science feel.
Capricorn Capricorn's picture
What I'd like to see in an Argonaut mini-sourcebook:
-I support almost all aforementioned ideas (VIPs and notorious persons; dirty secrets / schemes and plans; hierarchyand structure / cliques and factions; a system for experimental tech / breakthrough science; relations with Firewall / Factors; daily lives of (player) Argonauts; morale and doctrine concerning TITAN tech, forking, copyrights …) -A primer on everthing Argonaut, even if it is redundant / recycled material, so that I don't have to look up EP, Rimward etc. -Game-related/-relevant material: What is a level 3 favor among the Argonauts? Do they have special egocasting hubs / grey stations where I can use my R-rep? What about Argonaut-only equipment, fabber blueprints, surveillance pico-satellites, morph modding, reverse-engineering of Iktomi artifacts / Factor gifts? How do the Argonauts see the other factions and vice versa? -I'd like to see the mini-book as a model for upcoming 'splatbooks' on other factions, a good mix of background, player- and GM-oriented gaming stuff. An accompanying piece of short fiction would be fine, but best published seperately. -And yes, some hints / teasers at the grand schemes of the EP universe would be great.
Maskin Maskin's picture
Yes, all of the above. I also
Yes, all of the above. I also would like to see a bit more science gear, advise on using and building custom tech and how to leverage science skills.
Capricorn wrote:
A primer on everthing Argonaut, even if it is redundant / recycled material, so that I don't have to look up EP, Rimward etc.
Yes, this, or at the very least a page or section with references to Argonaut material in all the other books.
Transhuman Mind
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Well, it's official...
Brian is writing this book. :) Thanks for all of your suggestions! And feel free to keep them coming.
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
Enigma32 Enigma32's picture
About the Argonauts:
About the Argonauts: There's a whole lot of potential for this. Allow me to digress for a second, and then I'll bring it back on topic: One of the campaigns I wanted to run saw the players working with the Planetary Consortium. They were drafted by someone in the upper tiers of the PC to go after a rogue Argonaut that the PC had gotten drift of: this Argonaut had been engaged heavily in xenotech and xenoarcheology, and he'd been looking for information on the Factors. Despite internal pressures from within the Argonauts, he'd managed to kill a Factor ambassador in an exosolar colony, and the PC didn't want any extrasolar incidents, so they sent the characters in to retrieve the body so "it could be returned to the Factors." He wants to study the body and reveal what he learned from it to everyone, putting it on the Mesh as open source technology. Unfortunately, he crossed the line when he assassinated the Factor, and set into motion a whole crap load of problems that the players were working with the PC to try and head off (they get no help from the anarchists on the colony he was currently crashing in at the time of them finding him; who's going to trust a bunch of PC stooges that are claiming one of their best body designers, a very inoffensive and incredibly intelligent well-meaning guy, killed a Factor, huh?) As far as being an opponent went, he would have a relatively dangerous morph, that was mostly packed with xenotech that he'd managed to recover and figure out how to make use of, in addition to "xenowear", or bioware that had originally been xenobiology adapted to his morph. Non-violent by nature, his morph equipment would be mostly defensive stuff, making him hard to track, hard to find, and hard to kill. Now, to bring this conversation back to the topic. I assumed a lot about the Argonauts when drafting the campaign hook and the general idea about the campaign, and I can unpack those assumptions as things that would be really cool to have answers for: 1. There are almost certainly competing factions within the Argonauts. Select any two humans and you have at least four or five different opinions just in those two. What are some of the major ones? How common are extreme Argonauts - the ones who are willing to go so far as killing a Factor ambassador in order to figure out what makes them tick? What about ones who support making xenotech open source, and those who are wary of it? 2. The Argonaut in question had been actively pursing the uplifting of scurrids, the cute furry things from Gatecrashers. Gatecrashers describes them as being chimpanzee like intelligent, which opens the door for justification of xenouplifts. Argonauts are described as being active in the uplifting process in Panopticon; they sponsor the Kisilev OS Uplift Genetic Library. Are they involved in attempts to uplift any xenothings? 3. Argonauts and xenotech. Some examples of Xenotech have been given in Gatecrashers, but this is a good opportunity to introduce more. What kind of xenotech do they work with? What kind of xenotech do they have - and are they working on reverse engineering it? 4. There relationships with the other factions. What are they like? 5. The research into psi and the Watts-McLeod strain. What kind of progress, if any, are they making? The concept is cool; the Argonauts are a major player in the EP universe and it's good that they're getting the sort of attention the other groups got.
"If we succeed, we're geniuses for doing it. If we fail, we're stupid for trying it. If we succeed beyond our goal and our dreams, we're insane for reaching so high and getting there."
hazemyth hazemyth's picture
Still in the works?
I realize that, regarding release dates, the answer is always "We'll tell you when it's out" but I was seriously wondering if this is still in the works? It's been over a year since the Kickstarter ended and, though I've enjoyed the many stretch goal releases that have come out, I haven't seen anything on this in a loooooong time.
kindalas kindalas's picture
jackgraham wrote:Brian is
jackgraham wrote:
Brian is writing this book. :)
When it is ready it will be ready. Kindalas
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hazemyth hazemyth's picture
Thanks, I guess?
So, does that mean it really is still a matter of 'when' and not 'if'? Look, I get that you guys have limited resources but I think you can understand why, after 15 months of complete radio silence, a body might wonder. I was just looking for a simple answer, 'Yes, this is still in the production schedule,' or 'No, it is not', regarding something that your organization committed to a long time ago. Answers that are cryptic, bordering on rude, kind of make me feel like a fool for trying to be a loyal customer.
kindalas kindalas's picture
Sorry,
Sorry, That was way more sarcastic and cryptic then I intended. Please accept my apology. On a serious note the book is being written by Brian who is an expert in alternate social structures. During Gen Con there will be a Posthuman Studios seminar that could have more information but I'm not privy to what will be said or discussed beyond the summary posted here and on the Gen Con flyer. Kindalas
I am a Moderator of this Forum [color=red]My mod voice is red.[/color] The Eclipse Phase Character sheet is downloadable here: [url=http://sites.google.com/site/eclipsephases/home/cabinet] Get it here![/url]
hazemyth hazemyth's picture
Thanks very much for the
Thanks very much for the apology. Sorry I was so touchy. And thanks very much for the information! I'm very excited for this product!
Surly Surly's picture
I want to see labs, and the
I want to see [i]labs[/i], and the research that happens there. What research do the Argonauts do publicly? What do they do privately, and argue amongst themselves about the merits of? What do some of them study that others think is a waste of time and/ or dangerous? Eclipse Phase needs more hidden labs with terrifying research going on there. It's important to be clear that progress [i]does not stop.[/i] The world is changing fast. The rate of change is getting faster. And in some games, the PCs can tip the scales on what changes for transhumanity and how. EDIT: Oh wait, should have checked the dates.
Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
Any update on Argonauts or an
Any update on Argonauts or an ETA? I have to admit I'm excited for this one.