What happened to the dolphins?

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fnord3125 fnord3125's picture
What happened to the dolphins?
Dolphins are mentioned in the timeline as one of the first uplifted non-human species, but they're not mentioned anywhere else that I've seen so far, like the uplift background in the character creation chapter. Granted a dolphin-shaped morph would be problematic anywhere but a specially created aquatic habitat, but I would assume that some uplifted dolphins at least managed to escaped the Fall as infugees, right?
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Several Cetaceans (whales and dolphins) survived the crash but unfortunately they are not the best player characters and that is why they were excluded from the core rule book. It is my understanding that there will be a book that will cover neo-cetaceans (along with other Mercurials not covered by the core rule book). One thing I think that happened to a lot of cetaceans, is they would have been employed as long haul pilots (with the installation of a cyber brain in a transport or fighter). Cetaceans have the evolutionary advantage over transhumans in that long voyages with no scenery won't effect them mentally. They are the best long haul pilots. Dolphins would also have an advantage over AGIs as fighter pilots (due to millions of years of evolutionary 3D tactics development).
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
lol wut?
Am I the only person picturing the scene from Johnny Mnemonic with the Dolphin hacker?
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: lol wut?
Thunderwave wrote:
Am I the only person picturing the scene from Johnny Mnemonic with the Dolphin hacker?
No but I didn't want to admit first that I saw Johnny Mnemonic.
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
fnord3125 fnord3125's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
TBRMInsanity wrote:
Several Cetaceans (whales and dolphins) survived the crash but unfortunately they are not the best player characters and that is why they were excluded from the core rule book. It is my understanding that there will be a book that will cover neo-cetaceans (along with other Mercurials not covered by the core rule book).
I don't know that I agree (about them not making good PCs, that is). After all, the "uplift" background doesn't really make any distinction between the different types of uplifts. Granted, since it requires you to start with an uplift morph, the implication is that you're starting with a morph that matches your origins. But still, "uplifted dolphin" could just be treated as a bit of detail for someone who took, say, the re-instantiated background. That said, I do look forward to seeing an official treatment of neo-cetaceans.
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
fnord3125 wrote:
I don't know that I agree (about them not making good PCs, that is). After all, the "uplift" background doesn't really make any distinction between the different types of uplifts. Granted, since it requires you to start with an uplift morph, the implication is that you're starting with a morph that matches your origins. But still, "uplifted dolphin" could just be treated as a bit of detail for someone who took, say, the re-instantiated background. That said, I do look forward to seeing an official treatment of neo-cetaceans.
No I agree with you that cetaceans would make ok PCs (no better or worse then any other character), but that is my thought on why they were not included by CGL. I'm not a CGL employee so I can't say for sure why they didn't include cetaceans, but I do know they are making a Mercurial source book eventually (from what has been said on this forum).
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
TBRMInsanity wrote:
fnord3125 wrote:
I don't know that I agree (about them not making good PCs, that is). After all, the "uplift" background doesn't really make any distinction between the different types of uplifts. Granted, since it requires you to start with an uplift morph, the implication is that you're starting with a morph that matches your origins. But still, "uplifted dolphin" could just be treated as a bit of detail for someone who took, say, the re-instantiated background. That said, I do look forward to seeing an official treatment of neo-cetaceans.
No I agree with you that cetaceans would make ok PCs (no better or worse then any other character), but that is my thought on why they were not included by CGL. I'm not a CGL employee so I can't say for sure why they didn't include cetaceans, but I do know they are making a Mercurial source book eventually (from what has been said on this forum).
...have you actually seen an in print version of EP? It's a MONSTER of a book that puts the tomes that make up the HERO system to the test. Including all the information on all the uplifted animals would add a few hundred pages to the book if done right, and that would make the book go from massive to unmanageable. I'd file this under "We need to do this, but no room right now for it". Better another book then leave out something positively critical to the core game/setting to make room for something not critical. That's flavor text, crunch, background information, Morphs, art, and so on. There is a lot that goes into letting someone portray an alien thought process. Let them put it in a seperate book and do it right. I'd rather see that then a slapdash 10 page blurb in the corebook.
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Thunderwave wrote:
...have you actually seen an in print version of EP? It's a MONSTER of a book that puts the tomes that make up the HERO system to the test. Including all the information on all the uplifted animals would add a few hundred pages to the book if done right, and that would make the book go from massive to unmanageable. I'd file this under "We need to do this, but no room right now for it". Better another book then leave out something positively critical to the core game/setting to make room for something not critical. That's flavor text, crunch, background information, Morphs, art, and so on. There is a lot that goes into letting someone portray an alien thought process. Let them put it in a seperate book and do it right. I'd rather see that then a slapdash 10 page blurb in the corebook.
The core rule book isn't any bigger then any other core rule book I've seen (it is actually thinner then the SR4A Core Rule book). But I do agree with you that if they added in every possible character type in the core book that it would have looked more like the Battletech core rule book (which I sometimes use as a free weight because it is so massive).
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
TBRMInsanity wrote:
The core rule book isn't any bigger then any other core rule book I've seen (it is actually thinner then the SR4A Core Rule book). But I do agree with you that if they added in every possible character type in the core book that it would have looked more like the Battletech core rule book (which I sometimes use as a free weight because it is so massive).
Maybe I've been spoiled/deprived, but the EP core is larger then any of the core rulebooks I've got for all the rest of my RPG collections. The only one that comes close is Dark Heresy. But I'm glad to see my point got across. It's already meaty.
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
A bunch of copy on neo-cetaceans is already in the can & scheduled for an upcoming supplement. And sadly that is all I can see, beyond dropping a few hints: 1. Core does make brief mention of water habs, a few watery worlds, and at least one exotic cetacean morph. Yeah, they don't make the best PCs, but they're out there. 2. One of the outer system characters mentioned in the sidebars in Core is a dolphin living in a human morph. (It doesn't really give any clues as to whom, but you can have fun trying to guess).
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
LordDamian LordDamian's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
well, as to pc-ability read david brinn's uplift stuff. some of the main characters are dolphins... and one orca, but he's a villian. they're perfectly suited to pressurized microgravity, think "wing" when you see "fin" or "fluke" :) also, cetaceans are playable characters in "Blue Planet" so obviously it can't be all bad. :D of course, it IS on a water world, but like i said, microgravity works too.
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
I dunno why you folks are saying uplifted dolphins wouldn't work very well as PCs. I think they'd probably work just fine. Just stick a couple pairs of cyberlegs and a set of cyberarms (or, possibly, a few pairs of cyberlegs that double as cyberarms) and you'd be good to go.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Bloodwork Bloodwork's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Quote:
dunno why you folks are saying uplifted dolphins wouldn't work very well as PCs. I think they'd probably work just fine. Just stick a couple pairs of cyberlegs and a set of cyberarms (or, possibly, a few pairs of cyberlegs that double as cyberarms) and you'd be good to go.
Pic please..
That which doesn't kill you usually succeeds on the second attempt.
Sammi Sammi's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
I want one.
Bloodwork Bloodwork's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
That is one bad ass dolphin
That which doesn't kill you usually succeeds on the second attempt.
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Sammi wrote:
I want one.
I was thinking of something rather more spider-like, though I'd imagine there'd be quite a debate between the proponents of the spider-legged mobility shells and the bird-legged shells regarding their relative merits. Dolphins have no pelvises, for instance, so that particular design might get rather uncomfortable after a while.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Halloween Halloween's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Blue Planet V2 had a good setting and a dedicated supplement on uplifted dolphin and other cetecean.
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Sammi wrote:
I want one.
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
Bloodwork Bloodwork's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Thunderwave wrote:
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
Only those of us obsessed with dicks.
That which doesn't kill you usually succeeds on the second attempt.
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Bloodwork wrote:
Thunderwave wrote:
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
Only those of us not obsessed with dicks.
Pfft. It's staring right at us. Hard not to notice it and wonder "WTF?".
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Thunderwave wrote:
Pfft. It's staring right at us. Hard not to notice it and wonder "WTF?".
I didn't notice, but I'm not obsessed with dicks. :D
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
All of you stink. -.- ;)
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Thunderwave wrote:
Sammi wrote:
I want one.
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
I'd have thought it would be obvious. It's a water intake for its propulsion system. IIRC jet skis have a similar set-up.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
nick012000 wrote:
Thunderwave wrote:
Sammi wrote:
I want one.
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
I'd have thought it would be obvious. It's a water intake for its propulsion system. IIRC jet skis have a similar set-up.
I thought the same thing, but the jets appear to be on the leg pieces. Seems awfully inefficient to push water through an intake, force it through the the leg joints, then out the back. Would make better sense to have the jets on the back of the same piece on the set up, plus the intake is at a totally wrong angle unless it's going to be pushing through the water standing up rather then in a more natural swimming position. But then, I have no idea what the bottom of a jetski looks like.
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
Thunderwave wrote:
Sammi wrote:
I want one.
...is anyone -else- wondering why that robo-dolphin has a large tube looking thing coming out of it's robo-crotch?
It's an ovipositor. Duh. And Sammi, that is awesome. :)
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
750 750's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
i find myself wondering, do a dolphin have the spine to handle that kind of setup? and the water jet ports seems to be connected above the legs, rather then on the legs.
Meldaran Meldaran's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
The dolphins in David Brin's Startide Rising used a kind of spider exoskeleton legged that allowed them to evolve on the ground, with manipulator arms to do stuff, if I remember correctly. That's certainly within the realm of possibility in Eclipse Phase. Dolphin stations are certainly filled with water (see EP p.68), but probably *not* zero-g... Otherwise the'd have to use that hyper oxygenated water (see the film Abyss or again, Startide Rising with the water filled space ship IIRC) or some kind of breather apparatus... Mel.
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: What happened to the dolphins?
If a Neo-Dolphin morph had gills you could fill the hab with water. That being said, Dolphins and other Cetaceans evolved from land animals and it is in their DNA to have a pubic bone. I would image that their morphs would reactivate this suppressed DNA so that dolphins can move on land.
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.