What *DO* they look like?

66 posts / 0 new
Last post
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Decivre wrote:
nick012000 wrote:
So, well-built Indians, then? I doubt many of them will want to look like people of African descent, due to lingering social stigmas over race.

I doubt those stigmas will be as big an issue. Remember, many people will pick their bodies for function over form. If there's someone who has a body with very dark skin, it may have been chosen for the large amount of sun exposure they were expecting to get, rather than the fact that they look African-American. In fact, dark skin might be a good choice for a combat morph... it makes their profile blend in with the relatively dark space environment of the outer system, and there is no particular advantage to lighter skin (we lose pigmentation due to the reduced exposure to sun, much like how we lost functional appendixes from reduced exposure to raw meat).

There's more to looking African than skin color, dude. It's also a matter of bone structure. Someone with Caucasian bone structure and dark skin's probably going to look more like an Indian than an African.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

I have been trying to figure out whether it would be more desirable in zero-g to be long (permitting you to grab things further out and move faster) or stocky (helps to keep in heat, and also more convenient in the tight-quarters of a station or ship). Any thoughts on this?

KarmaInferno KarmaInferno's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

In space, it's actually a problem having TOO MUCH heat.

Human (and post-human) habitations tend to generate a good amount of heat. The problem is, in space you can't really conduct or convect it anywhere, and radiating heat isn't especially efficient. The insulation you see on space stations is actually to prevent MORE heat from coming in via solar radiation and such.

-karma

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

I had considered that, and I feel comfortable saying that any morph made just to operate effectively in space is likely long-limbed and skinny. However, I'm wondering specifically about the furies, which are designed to fight. I don't know if the added reach is a bonus or a penalty in such closed quarters.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

nick012000 wrote:
There's more to looking African than skin color, dude. It's also a matter of bone structure. Someone with Caucasian bone structure and dark skin's probably going to look more like an Indian than an African.

Transhuman bone structures will likely be more efficient than skeletons of any sort today. In fact, I'd imagine that one of the primary purposes of fat in a transhuman body will be to fill out that body in a way that makes it look more "human". Irregardless, morph type will probably be an issue far less focused-on by people in Eclipse Phase (with the exception of those who are against the use of resleeving technology). Judging someone's morph will be more akin to judging the car they drive than judging their background and birth.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
I had considered that, and I feel comfortable saying that any morph made just to operate effectively in space is likely long-limbed and skinny. However, I'm wondering specifically about the furies, which are designed to fight. I don't know if the added reach is a bonus or a penalty in such closed quarters.

Definitely a bonus, however they probably aren't going to be all that skinny. Furies are likely morphs completely built out of dense muscle, and likely weigh more than other biomorphs of a similar size. As such, they probably have a certain degree of bulk to their bodies, and it probably hurts like hell when they punch your ass. I think female version of football linebacker when I think of what furies might look like.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Consdering all that was said about the Furies, I'm starting to picture them akin to Wolverine's clone X-23

I think that most morphs are seen like vehicles or clothes, but some will earn you blank stares, or disgusted glare.

you could be sure your ID will be checked if you're wearing a Neotenic morph in a zone near a school. That's what the social stygma trait is depicting

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Quincey Forder wrote:
you could be sure your ID will be checked if you're wearing a Neotenic morph in a zone near a school. That's what the social stygma trait is depicting

No, it's not. Neotenics are occasionally used in the sex trade, so people are wary of people who get them. It even mentions this in the description.

You can't really tell one way or another if someone is wearing a neotenic... they look like a kid. Morphs aren't totally like cars... they aren't always obvious. However, there are ways that you might be able to tell if someone is wearing a specific morph. For instance, Furies are built tough as hell, generally a woman. The male models will probably look buff as crap as well, perhaps very broad-shouldered. However, beyond that there will be no outside markings that will denote that they are definitely furies, nor that they aren't a normal human. This will be the case with virtually all biomorphs that are built humanlike, except those with defining features (Remade with their freaky looks, most synthmorphs unless they get a synthetic mask). If a worker pod, olympian, splicer, exalt and very physically fit human stand side-by-side, there will not necessarily be any defining features that will tell you make, model, or which one is natural. If a child and neotenic stand side-by-side, you'll have the same effect.

This is further compounded by the permeation of physical modification. Is that guy in a ghost, or did he just give his flat a chameleon skin implant? Is that a bouncer, or just an olympian with modded feet? Is that some rare male fury, or did they buy a female fury and jump into their healing vat for a quick sex change? These things can't really be discerned by mere looks.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Young Freud Young Freud's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Damnit, miss out on this thread in months and it suddenly turns into one of the things I'm interested in. Unfortunately, the concept piece I made of a Fury is too exaggerated and not clear enough in demostating the differences between a Flat and a Fury. I'll need to make another couple more concept works. I'll have you know that I believe that Furies should be essentially based off the Remade than the Exalt, so they both have the Uncanny Valley trait and a AptMax of 40.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Young Freud wrote:
Damnit, miss out on this thread in months and it suddenly turns into one of the things I'm interested in. Unfortunately, the concept piece I made of a Fury is too exaggerated and not clear enough in demostating the differences between a Flat and a Fury. I'll need to make another couple more concept works. I'll have you know that I believe that Furies should be essentially based off the Remade than the Exalt, so they both have the Uncanny Valley trait and a AptMax of 40.

Right now, the remade seem to be a niche morph model, only heavily adopted by the eugenics-heavy Ultimates and similar groups. It's probable that the Furies maintain more similarities to normal humans for the comfort of soldiers using them. It puts a human face on the battlefield, so to speak. Besides, the remade are already effective combat morphs... as the Ultimates use them heavily and are one of the premier mercenary forces in the system.

That said, your photo definitely looks like it could be a Fury in intimidatingly-designed combat armor.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Actually, I'd think that avoiding the uncanny valley would be a clear strategic advantage. Humans have problems killing other humans. But who has a problem killing zombies (or other weird, pseudo-human monsters)?

Thampsan Thampsan's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

I completely agree with you nezumi.hebereke, only sociopaths feel nothing about killing other humans. Normal people are adverse to the idea - even soldiers in combat often balk and shoot to miss (or shoot to wound) rather than kill and a multitude of factors come into play that either making killing harder, or easier, depending on circumstance (a great book about this is 'On Killing' by Dave Grossman). So snipers, artillerymen, people in bombers, have an easier time killing people because they don't see the result of their actions up close as it is happening - distance is a factor. But hand-to-hand killing or short range killing is a lot harder (psychologically) on all concerned.

But an interesting factor is that apparently it is easier (psychologically) to kill a fleeing man, simply because it is easier to depersonalize when you can't see a face and feel empowered (by having caused your opponent to turn and run). Likewise uniforms, war paint, etc also have a de-personalizing effect which both empowers and increases the intensity of combat. I remember reading a study on some of the most bloody conflicts being between pacific islanders who used war-paints extensively to completely remove the human element.

With all of this in mind, and all factors having been considered, I would say that the uncanny valley is definitely a strong disadvantage when it comes to combat. It takes more effort to psychologically stun your opponent by emphasising your humanity -and so dissuade or make it significantly more emotionally difficult for them to pull the trigger, than it would for ordinary people. This goes doubly in a heated fire-fight, it is easier to depersonalize the wearer of the uncanny valley morph.

Of course this isn't to say that the uncanny valley turns ordinary people into sociopaths, it doesn't make you some completely inhuman/dehumanize you, but rather marks you as alien and different. Which is a bad thing when it comes to fight/flight responses where snap judgements could mean life or death - but is generally only a minor inconvenience during normal social interactions.

Conversely the uncanny valley trait could also be seen as the new war-paint, the wearer is harder to identify (personalize) to the other side as human so inflicting injury or death is easy because we can't relate to them - as such the stakes are increased. This doesn't mean that the uncanny valley morph wearer is immune to normal human feelings and being able to relate to their opponents as being human (especially if they look human), but other factors like the loss of squad mates, extra can spur individuals to commit bloody acts of revenge in the heat of battle.

Of course this is Eclipse Phase and the above is all academic talk about warfare in the 21st century and before. Sensibly any individual who is going to make a profession out of killing is either going to be subject to psychosurgery to suppress or remove the problematic empathy - so the uncanny valley flaw isn't going to be a major factor anyway, or already be a naturally born sociopath.

But it is good to keep this all in mind when real characters fight, because chances are that Jovian dock workers probably won't be trying to kill you and will settle for knocking you out and leaving you there.

Saerain Saerain's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Yes, the word for this is pseudospeciation, although today it typically has much more to do with seeing the enemy as psychologically less-human, rather than physically—with the exception of propaganda cartoons, I guess, but those aren't so common now as they once were.

Decivre wrote:
In fact, dark skin might be a good choice for a combat morph... it makes their profile blend in with the relatively dark space environment of the outer system, and there is no particular advantage to lighter skin (we lose pigmentation due to the reduced exposure to sun, much like how we lost functional appendixes from reduced exposure to raw meat).
The advantage to lightened skin is avoiding hypovitaminosis D and associated bone/muscle diseases in sustained low-sunlight conditions. Dark-skinned people in dim northern climates are wise to take vitamin D supplements, whereas those of more native descent can synthesize plenty from very little exposure.

For early humans migrating into northern Europe, rickets alone was a pretty strong selective pressure for lighter skin. Bowed legs, soft teeth and uncontrollable muscle spams weren't conducive to life in the Paleolithic.

Of course, this should all be practically moot in Eclipse Phase for all but flats, I think. It would seem silly to still be worrying about vitamin deficiencies and UVB damage with the degree of genetic engineering and biotechnology that is possible, let alone nanobots.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
Actually, I'd think that avoiding the uncanny valley would be a clear strategic advantage. Humans have problems killing other humans. But who has a problem killing zombies (or other weird, pseudo-human monsters)?

We don't know. No one has ever really faced a zombie, nor any real enemy that wasn't human. For all we know, facing an opponent within the uncanny valley will be so demoralizing, that any normal human will be less capable of fighting them (the horror movie effect, so to speak). The only gauge we have to go on would be how we react when we play videogames, and that's a horrible standard (lest we declare them "murder simulators").

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Kirk Quasar Kirk Quasar's picture
Re: What *DO* they look like?

Chello!

Why does this thread make me think of this 1980s movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6KJtFZoflc

“As a base of operations, you cannot beat a f---ing saloon.”
Al Swearengen, Deadwood

"Two lessons, my son. First, watch behind you. Second, count your shots - four bullets for one man, that's a waste."
Lee Van Cleef, “Death Rides a Horse”

Pages