Weapon Damage and Armor

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cenrae cenrae's picture
Weapon Damage and Armor

So Im looking for confirmation of my understanding of the system.

Steps 6 Modify Armor and Step 7 Determine Damage (pg 192) are very clear when a weapons AP does not EXCEED the armors listed ratings. The example supports this. But what of the reverse? I have always assumed that any AP values that goes over a defenders armor values counts as extra damage but the book does not suggest that that is the case.

Take for example the Shard Pistol and Shredder. The text clearly says they are very good at penetrating armor (thus the -10 AP) but they do not disperse kinetic energy very well and so do not cause as much tissue damage as kinetic weapons.

If you go by my assumption that excess AP over armor counts as damage an unarmored target hit with a Shard Pistol takes 1D10 + 6 plus the 10 AP points for 1d10+16 damage (avg 21) vs say a heavy kinetic pistol doing avg 15DV. That makes a shard pistol way better on average than every kinetic weapon other than the sniper rifle. This does not even including the short range +1d10 for cone effect weapons.

Thoughts?

Deadite Deadite's picture
Re: Weapon Damage and Armor

IRL, rounds that tend to be better at penetrating armour tend to be poorer at delivering their energy to the target in terms of damaging trauma.

It's a trade off. If you want to get through the armour, you go for a bullet that will do less damage once it's through, or you go for a bullet that does more damage but is more likely to be stopped by armour.

In short, I disagree with your idea of extra AP > armour = extra damage.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Weapon Damage and Armor

Excess AP beyond that which negates the armor of your target is wasted. Otherwise, it would have no mathematical use... at all. Without that negation, a weapon with 1d10+8 damage and no AP does identical damage as a weapon with 1d10 damage with 8 AP.

So no, negation occurs and any AP beyond the armor of your target is wasted. High AP ammo is largely wasted on unarmored targets for this very reason.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Weapon Damage and Armor

The way I see things, the AP is absolute, in the sense that it ignores the armor instead of just forcing its way through it.
It can mean the difference between life and death

Following the exemple of 1D10+8 with AP of 8, it makes an armor value of, say, 12 in an armor value of 4. If on your die you roll 10, the damage dealt would be 6+8=14, instead of 18 (10+8)-12=6.
That mean you can deal at least one Wound, maybe two with the armor piecing ignoring the armor

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OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Weapon Damage and Armor

LOL are you disappointed that "extra" AP does not increase damage???

with Wound Thresholds averaging around 7 and realistic (from a role play perspective) amounts of armor rarely exceeding AP by more than 6 you're producing a wound about half the time you pull the trigger with any but the lightest weapons.

Are you afraid that the game isn't deadly enough? :D

Enough teasing ;)

You're right that a shard pistol is a gruesome weapon. Mostly because the real damage code is 2d10+10 AP-10, there's no good reason to not use FA if you've snagged yourself a shardgun. It's also an awesome weapon when you consider concealability in comparison to a Kinetic pistol or a laser. And it's also more usefull than a sniper rifle or, really, most big weapons cause confined spaces are much more common than open spaces.

So, ultimately the extra 2-4 points of damage you'd get from adding AP wrong don't really matter with a shard pistol, (or any other weapon really because the base DV +BF/FA, bonuses pretty much always overcome the wound threshold once you get through the armor.)

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

cenrae cenrae's picture
Re: Weapon Damage and Armor

Thanks for all the pointers. I was tending to believe that excess AP damage was wasted but the way the book is written it wasn't that black and white to me. Thanks again for your opinions.