An Ultimate's Guide to Combat

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UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Something like C-4 or Halo's
Something like C-4 or Halo's fantastic C-7 (think explosive silly string) plastic explosives - just the fun stuff you can pack in wherever thanks to smart materials. And maybe some more adaptable pre-packaged explosives. Something like a demo coil or block where you can adjust how much boom you want at once without having to make your own explosives in your bathtub.
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thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
Me concur!
Yes, more than one substance to use with Demolitions would be wonderful. In fact, The core book really only gives one example of what to do with Demolitions, and gives the impression that it's a deadweight skill. You can fix that.
"Still and transfixed, the el/ ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Hey, technically, Demolitions
Hey, technically, Demolitions has three example uses. You can set the boom, you can make the boom in your bathtub or space toilet, and you can turn off somebody else's boom. That last bit is very vital, and the second is handy when combined with the Scrounging skill. (Not that I don't agree demo could use some role expanding like many of the new weapon systems in AUGC do, obv)
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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I plan to have the following
I plan to have the following details in the explosives system: Different types of explosive construction for different effects, mostly with regards to armor. I may not have read the core rulebook enough, but it doesn't look like armor in EP is built to interact with the existing demolitions rules (though armor *does* state which types of explosives it works with, demolitions doesn't specify fragmentation/high-energy explosives). Bombs can be built to fall into any of three categories (always energy, always kinetic, or lowest but not effective in vacuum), or for an additional cost be designed to always take the lowest armor rating without any drawbacks. While I won't go into individual explosive materials, partly because of EP's tech advances and partly because I have a limit to how many watch lists I'd like to be on, there will be grades. Military grade explosives have a lot of bang for their buck. Most military explosives touched on in AUGC have limiter functions, allowing them to essentially self-contain the blast or neutralize some of the explosives prior to a detonation, a feature that prevents some of the hard vacuum exposure that could otherwise result. I'm using a uniform damage (i.e. no rolling) system, which uses three spheres: a kill zone, a maim zone, and a maximum effect zone. These are based on the size of the explosive (higher grade explosives mean better yield/volume), and loosely based on the concept of overpressure. If there isn't enough space to fully contain a zone, it is upgraded to the next higher type (so if the maim zone can't fit inside the tin can habitat, then the entire habitat volume is considered a kill zone). Realistically, these zones would look probably look identical across most explosives, but better bombs do more damage in each zone. I should have a preview up next week, followed shortly by the revised version that this system will need. EDIT: Working on some rajput weapons, which I hope to also make some art for (it'll be separate, because I am not a great artist).
thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
Rajput?
Why do I imagine that Steel Accord would like to see those Rajput weapons?
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Tulwars.
"Still and transfixed, the el/ ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Right now I'm working on the
Right now I'm working on the Sarissa. It's a high caliber bullpup battle rifle derivative, but is designed for long-term use (it uses massive helical drum magazines, has an analogue ammunition count (based on the weight of the magazine, calibrated by full magazines). Full automatic fire imposes recoil penalties, and it's right on the upper border of weapons that don't have the Unwieldy quality. Built to fire cased or modified caseless rounds, it is not an ambidextrous weapon, though the shell ejection can be redirected, allowing users with inappropriate handedness to use the weapon, albeit clumsily. It has sealed internal storage beneath the rear shockpad, which can hold another hundred rounds of ammunition and a cache of medical supplies. If empty, shells can be ejected into this storage compartment. The body of the firearm is oversized and includes another storage compartment above the trigger group and trigger guard. The Sarissa's over-barrel mounting rail can be equipped with an adapter to allow both optics and a "underbarrel" weapon to be used at the same time.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Bumping my own thread:
Bumping my own thread: I still need to stat the Sarissa and include some pre-made bombs, and add more rules for fabricating the different grades of high explosive, but I've put up an AUGC11 preview. We're to 37k words now, so it's got a lot of content. I picked up a couple US Army-published manuals at a local used bookstore, one on mountaineering, one on command and control, and another on military police. I've also downloaded FM-3-97-6, which also is about mountaineering, but that one's just a download. High altitude is the closest thing to Martian conditions that any army has actually fought in, so I hope to glean some fluff from them.
thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
One more thing
And don't be afraid to throw in more of those Shadowrun peanut gallery annotations.
"Still and transfixed, the el/ ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
thebluespectre wrote:And don
thebluespectre wrote:
And don't be afraid to throw in more of those Shadowrun peanut gallery annotations.
Honestly, I kinda use those to tell myself where I've gone through and done editing. I mean, they're not going anywhere, but you'll probably see a lot more in AUGC12 or AUGC11b than in the preview releases.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Minor Feedback
I'd consider renaming "shock" explosives to blast explosives, just for the sake of avoiding ambiguity with traditional shock weapons. This actually threw me off because explosives with the shock quality are probably possible in EP. Something like a conductive powder and a big capacitor bank. Otherwise is looks like the grenades and seekers table has jumped in front of the shotguns table. Good stuff.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I've fixed both of those.
I've fixed both of those. Originally I selected two name candidates for each type of explosive, with the idea of later removing one. Shock/Concussive was supposed to become concussive (as the table shows), but after selecting Concussive as the final name on the table I went back and said "Now to erase that!" and didn't do it right. Grenades and seekers should now be back to their correct place once the next preview, which will have some pre-made bombs, is released.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
AUGC 11 Preview out now
The AUGC 11 preview, with some minor improvements in a couple of places (just making text read better and whatnot), pre-made bombs, and three special rajput weapons is out now!
thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
Interesting!
Where did the EMP diamond beam come from? I would not have thought of that.
"Still and transfixed, the el/ ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
thebluespectre wrote:Where
thebluespectre wrote:
Where did the EMP diamond beam come from? I would not have thought of that.
Absolutely no clue. It was one of those late-night free association things; originally I was thinking about having guardian nanoswarms delivered by the weapon as well as shards, but that was just too absurd (and expensive), and I wanted some anti-nanoswarm capability. I just settled on it out of the fact that it's one of the three or four anti-nanoswarm tools in my arsenal, and I didn't want to mount a flamer on my glorified shredder. The doru was designed to be to spray weapons what a sniper rifle is to kinetic weapons. While I wait on feedback for AUGC 11, I'm going to add in a couple new/updated morphs. One, the Phoenix, is a synthmorph that uses integrated fire and the like to do massive damage. The other is a rebuild of the Fenrir that doesn't have as much of an issue with life.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I've been putting a lot of
I've been putting a lot of work into Ned's Morph Overhaul, but a new AUGC, with the AMCS (but not advanced morph traits necessary for more exotic morph creation), sections on military policing, and perhaps a couple new pieces of gear, if I can think of any. I have a concept for a non-lethal morph disabling weapon, but can't decide how I want it to work. Something regarding SOM, and an added EMP effect to block signals.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
It's out!
It's out! AUGC 11 now includes three new combat morphs, a new augmentation, cavalry battlesuits, a new exotic weapon (the targun, which immobilizes foes and can fire special painful ammo), intro fiction, expanded fluff (as always), and general improvements, including moving the explosives to somewhere other than the middle of the Exotic Weapons section. It's over 44k words now, which raises serious questions about fragmenting it. Soon I also hope to do a major release where I sync all the tables up with their actual page locations, which has been made difficult by the way LibreOffice works.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
So I figured out why stuff's
So I figured out why stuff's been going weird; it took some work on Ned's Morph Overhaul (where I started trying to add in a side-bar), which reveals that Libre Office likes messing over frames (which is how I store most of the tables in AUGC (notable exceptions being the AMCS section) when one updates the TOC. I'm updating my LibreOffice to see if this fixes the issue, if not I may need to do some software upgrading: maybe move over to Scribus?
mellonbread mellonbread's picture
Suggestion RE: Spray Weapons
Suggestion RE: Spray Weapons Provided I understand it correctly, under RAW the "cone" that spray weapons fire allows you to attack one target at short range, two at medium range and three at long range. If it's not in there already and I just missed it, it could be cool to insert a rule for adjustable nozzles/chokes on spray weapons. This would let the shooter change the dispersal, meaning you could adjust the cone of fire to hit multiple targets even at short range. I don't know how practical it would be, but the guy in Altered Carbon always talks about doing it with his shard pistol, and I'm pretty sure that was where the shard weapons in EP came from.
Did you hear the one about the guy who became a fence?
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They say he was a real posthuman
Kojak Kojak's picture
Out of curiosity, do you plan
Out of curiosity, do you plan to add the stats for the rajput weapons in the next update?
"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Mellonbread: I'll think about
Mellonbread: I'll think about it. Part of the problem is that spray weapons are veering toward being significantly overpowered, so there would have to be a nerfing effect, but I'm not sure where it would come in. Kojak: They're on page 73, in a special table by themselves.
TheGrue TheGrue's picture
SquireNed wrote:M Part of the
SquireNed wrote:
M Part of the problem is that spray weapons are veering toward being significantly overpowered
Is that compared to accushot liquid thermite splash assault rifles, or the slightly more expensive double-damage-when-SA-fired plasma rifle?
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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
TheGrue wrote:SquireNed wrote
TheGrue wrote:
SquireNed wrote:
M Part of the problem is that spray weapons are veering toward being significantly overpowered
Is that compared to accushot liquid thermite splash assault rifles, or the slightly more expensive double-damage-when-SA-fired plasma rifle?
Well, the plasma rifle has always been a mite OP. Accushot liquid thermite splash assault rifles are an odd case because there's no explicit rule for multiple doses of a toxin/splash chemical (IIRC). I only let such things extend duration or increase by a smaller magnitude; this would actually make an accushot liquid thermite splash assault rifle slightly inferior to a standard spray weapon in most cases (since spray weapons could be used to deliver toxins and do additional damage, have decent AP, and the potential to be doing 6d10 damage), if only due to the fact that the spray weapon works quicker. Perhaps a better way to phrase it would've been: How can we make the spray weapons get another ability without rolling over into other weapons' turf, and how can we appropriately draw back from the usually insane abilities spray weapons get (perhaps -1d10 for each additional target at short/medium range, up to a limit of 3—this still leaves the problem of reducing the distinction between shots at different ranges, but has a more balanced approach).
mellonbread mellonbread's picture
What "usually insane
What "usually insane abilities" do spray weapons get? The only thing I can think of is the shredder's pretty respectable damage output, plus the ability to deliver toxins (something kinetic weapons can also do). The shard pistol strikes me as fairly balanced, and the torch is awful because it can only be fired in single shot mode for some reason. Giving it the ability to catch multiple targets with a single squirt at any range would go a little way towards making it more viable for a fighter whose primary role is roasting things you really, really don't want to infect you. That plus the ability to use hydrazine or another fuel that doesn't require oxygen to burn, allowing it to be used in a vacuum.
Did you hear the one about the guy who became a fence?
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They say he was a real posthuman
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
The radiation mechanics are
The radiation mechanics are pretty good. I look forward to trying these out. These should probably apply to the core particle beam bolter given its potential to trigger neutron cascade. I might recommend checking out the "electron beam disruptor" of Anders Sanberg's invention. It's physics crunchy and in keeping with some of the themes regarding anti-nano weaponry. http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Firewall%20guide%20to%20unconventional%... Other than that, I'm a bit confused as to the mechanics behind some of the specific radiation weapons. Beta particles, for instance, can usually be blocked by a few millimeters of suitably dense metal, so I'm not sure why these weapons have an AP as extreme as -15. Is this meant to represent the effects of breaking radiation? With regard to the PER weapons and weaponized x-rays and gamma rays, what's their source? The lasing medium in a laser has to be flooded with the same frequency that the laser emits. This isn't a problem with infrared, visible or UV light, but sadly there are not many good sources of x-rays and gamma-rays. About the only good source is a detonating nuclear device, which has the distressing side-effect of vaporizing the laser. An electron particle beam striking a tungsten plate would generate x-rays as per the medical devices, but not anywhere near this intensity without producing massive amounts of heat. Hafnium-178m2 could be made into a source of gamma rays if you could somehow trick it into decaying at an accelerated rate.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Soviet Onion wrote:The
Soviet Onion wrote:
The radiation mechanics are pretty good. I look forward to trying these out. These should probably apply to the core particle beam bolter given its potential to trigger neutron cascade. I might recommend checking out the "electron beam disruptor" of Anders Sanberg's invention. It's physics crunchy and in keeping with some of the themes regarding anti-nano weaponry. http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Firewall%20guide%20to%20unconventional%... Other than that, I'm a bit confused as to the mechanics behind some of the specific radiation weapons. Beta particles, for instance, can usually be blocked by a few millimeters of suitably dense metal, so I'm not sure why these weapons have an AP as extreme as -15. Is this meant to represent the effects of breaking radiation? With regard to the PER weapons and weaponized x-rays and gamma rays, what's their source? The lasing medium in a laser has to be flooded with the same frequency that the laser emits. This isn't a problem with infrared, visible or UV light, but sadly there are not many good sources of x-rays and gamma-rays. About the only good source is a detonating nuclear device, which has the distressing side-effect of vaporizing the laser. An electron particle beam striking a tungsten plate would generate x-rays as per the medical devices, but not anywhere near this intensity without producing massive amounts of heat. Hafnium-178m2 could be made into a source of gamma rays if you could somehow trick it into decaying at an accelerated rate.
The Beta radiation weapons had a typo, they had -15, and should've had -5. There is a device that can create radiation without requiring necessarily radioactive components and with less heat, but I forgot its name (I think it's a cousin of the sort of hardware used in a microwave, but not sure). It was cut because I didn't want to get too detailed, and because I figured that EP technology (which is well over 100 years in the future) likely has made that obsolete with another source of radiation. EDIT: I'm familiar with Sanberg's stuff, and it was actually this supplement that served as one of the motivations for AUGC, though AUGC is probably softer scientifically than most things on aleph.se.
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
That's cool. The beta
That's cool. The beta weapons make total sense now. I did also notice that the beta pistol's ammo is listed at 30 and the rifle's at 10; not sure if it was meant to be the other way around. Radiation weapons sound almost scarier than death in many cases, given their potential to mar cortical stacks. Fortunately/unfortunately medical biomods will pick up on this and send notification, so there's little chance to corrupt all backups.
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
One thing
One thing I've always wondered with regard to anti-nano is whether or not some kind of vacuum would be effective. Something that sucks them into a chamber and sterilizes them with a combination of heat, ultrasound and ionizing radiation. As far as creative spray weapons go it sounds plausible, and less likely to cause collateral damage. On that note, anti-nano countermeasures would also have to account for swarms that use ultrasound or laser to communicate, rather than radio. For laser, simple chaff should block their operation, and heat would still kill them (not sure about EMP). Ultrasound is trickier and opens up the possibility for sonic weapons, but these are probably a lot less common than radio. Still, one wonders what the Hidden Concern or Europan Defense Force use under the water.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
A vacuum sounds useful for
A vacuum sounds useful for defending a room against nanomachines, but seems kind of impractical to just carry around. EMPs should always work ok on nanomachines, they're too small to effectively shield their power supply. EMPs will even kill bacteria if they're powerful and sustained enough, and nanomachines need more power to be interesting. Whether or not they use radio should be unimportant actually, as actual nanomachines are too small to use ay of those systems. Microswarms should be pretty EMP immune without using radio though, so other countermeasures would be needed.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Radiation weapon ammunition
Radiation weapon ammunition is intended to be one of the rare exceptions where the larger weapon has fewer shots. The Radioactive quality is so powerful that I didn't want to let a Speed 4 rifle-wielding assailant murder everyone too quickly, so they have to reload after giving everyone in each room horrible sicknesses. Most nanomachines should be vulnerable to EMP, IIRC; at least some of the directed EMP weapons in AUGC. Both x-ray and microwave pulses should be able to more or less kick the turds out of a nanomachine, just because the former will ionize and the latter will do whatever the heck the term is for whatever microwaves do. Radio pulses would just frazzle antennae, probably, though if there's no optical circuitry for nanomachines (is there optical circuitry on the nanoscale level in EP?), then it would also have a chance of overloading the circuitry and shutting down everything.
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
Those are good points. I
Those are good points. I also think the original source material didn't emphasize the effect of flamers on nanites strongly enough. Nanoscale particles are particularly vulnerable to destruction by heat. In light of these other weapons, do you think the particle beam bolter is too weak and deserves a homebrewed boost? Radiation effects should apply to it as well, but -2 AP and 2d10+4 DV seems really small in comparison to beta weapons, given the mass difference. This brings to mind another possibility: the mercury ion beam bolter. The energy needed to accelerate heavier particles would potential render it a heavy weapon, but it would do much more damage and have the additional effect of poisoning biomorphs without toxin filters.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Bah, does anyone remember
Bah, does anyone remember where the 1d10 damage bonus for spray weapons in short range is? Once I verify that the rule does indeed exist, I plan to release 11.1. EDIT: Found it. Cone effect weapons.
TheGrue TheGrue's picture
EMP
How do core's EMP seekers and grenades interact with the EMP Threshold rules from AUGC?
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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
EMP seekers and grenades do
EMP seekers and grenades do 2d10+5 (per nanoswarm rules). One hit against something with an EMP Threshold knocks it out if it does "damage" to the device (basically, the antenna has an Armor [EMP Threshold], and a DR 1). EMP Threshold needs more love. I haven't really been working on AUGC (IRL stuff), but I need to get back into it.
Kojak Kojak's picture
Well, RL always comes first,
Well, RL always comes first, but I don't think I speak for just myself when I say the rest of the community looks forward to the next release/update.
"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Kojak wrote:Well, RL always
Kojak wrote:
Well, RL always comes first, but I don't think I speak for just myself when I say the rest of the community looks forward to the next release/update.
I'm completing my student teaching right now, which is taking a lot from me, and I've also begun working
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on a (post-)cyberpunk roleplaying game
as well as a D&D campaign after I haplessly fell in love with 5e.
TheGrue TheGrue's picture
Saturation
Saturation weapon rules make mention of "traditional flamethrowers", but the Guide includes no rules for same. The CRB's Torch is supposed to be the Eclipse Phase flamethrower isn't it? If rewritten to use the Guide's Saturation rules, what would the Torch's stats be?
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Scottbert Scottbert's picture
Cool supplement!
Cool supplement! Found some typos: p28, Nanowar: "...but the TITANs pioneered self-replicating nanoswarms in a way that was far from effective." should be ineffective p31, Radioactive: "Nanoswarms hit with radioactive weapons suffer double the weapon's Radioactive rating is in direct damage in addition to whatever damage the weapon would normally do to them." What? P51, Types of Explosive: "Most bombs are assumed to function as hybrids, as explosive agents tend to" Tend to what? p56, Metal Fire: "Metal fires are caused by flammable metals conducting." I think you mean "combusting".
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Sadly, those typos probably
Sadly, those typos probably won't get fixed until I have a lot more free time. I've updated LibreOffice, and at the time I was writing AUGC it was the first time I'd really prepped a book-size project in LibreOffice. The pages of tables that are all collected at the end actually wind up in a couple fewer pages now (because I did stupid anchoring), and it'll be a significant project to fix it up. If anyone's interested, the .odt files are in the PDF, and they could take a stab at fixing them up in Libre Office, especially if you're using the same version I was (I think it was 4.x?).

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