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Sympathy for the Jovians

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nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
+1, thanks for sharing. A
+1, thanks for sharing. A very cool line of thought. How would you feel about some of those indigenous peoples possibly having an actual position of power in the Republic? i.e., if some of the descendants of that oppressed cultural group were now agents of oppression?
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
If you'd like to throw a curve ball
If you'd like to throw a curve ball to your players on strong possibility is in the character of the church. While most people are going to assume the old fashioned Catholic Church with its medieval character it would almost make sense that it's taken some turns over the ages, especially with the strong Latin American influence in the Jovian Republic. I strongly recommend reading at least a little bit on the Liberation Theology movement (Basic history http://www.landreform.org/boff2.htm). This would provide an unusual take on the Church which would surprise players and make the Jovians feel quite a bit more sympathetic, even if you leave pretty much everything else as written.
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
ASingleCheesecake ASingleCheesecake's picture
I mean, I'm not a fan of
I mean, I'm not a fan of discrimflip? It caaaaan be done well -- Octavia Butler sure did a good job -- but it nearly always comes off as more the paranoid fantasies of those in power, who're terrified of having other people treat them the way they've treated folks? Not my thing, it's not even fun to watch them quake in their boots at the thought of the chickens coming home to roost because those stories tend to shore up abusive systems in the minds of those who read 'em and see themselves on the side that got flipped. I mean sure if you wanna tell me that some of these numerous Latin American folks are mestizo that's one thing, but the idea of an Indigenous culture group being in charge of the Republic is a little weird at best, and given the fact that Indigenous folks who dare to want to hang onto any elements of traditional culture are routinely stereotyped as technophobes (or hypocrites if we dare to incorporate modern tools into it, as though that invalidated our deal) I'm just gonna say the whole idea is a profound nonstarter for me.
I've never had the hand of witty signatures. Just assume what I wrote here is suitably pithy and/or smarmy.
thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
Da Pope
I forget, what does Rimward mention about the Pope, if anything? I know it said the Pope got their own transport off of Earth, but the Pope's identity itself is open to GM interpretation. …I keep imagining it being the first female Pope.
"Still and transfixed, the el/ ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
If it's a female pope, you
If it's a female pope, you can be pretty sure it's not the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC hasn't changed on matters of doctrine in two thousand years (except to add more) and part of that doctrine is women can't be ordained. Jesus didn't ordain any women as disciples, so the Church doesn't either. Yes, I know the female pope is a common trope in sci-fi, but it's also a sign your author didn't do basic research.
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
Jesus never ordained any
Jesus never ordained any white men (I think?) but plenty of them have been Pope. But yes, the RCC can be pretty stubborn. I wouldn't be surprised to see some non-white papacies by the time of EP, but attempts to elect female Popes would probably result in another schism. (Or even to appoint female cardinals. Regular priests... Maaaaaybe.)
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
ASingleCheesecake ASingleCheesecake's picture
"Jesus never ordained any
"Jesus never ordained any white men (I think?) but plenty of them have been Pope." Zing! Yeah, the RCC can be immensely stubborn. I personally like the idea of positing a schism between Roman and American (ie, both continents) Catholics sometime in the intervening period; it feels like future weirdness that works well I guess. Pragmatically, Rome's *gone*, these are Jovian Catholics.
I've never had the hand of witty signatures. Just assume what I wrote here is suitably pithy and/or smarmy.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Erulastant wrote:Regular
Erulastant wrote:
Regular priests... Maaaaaybe.)
Nope, ordination is ordination. However, you may see female deacons.
Panoptic Panoptic's picture
Personally, I'd love to play
Personally, I'd love to play an Ultimate if I get to play in an EP game. Plenty of scope for drawing inspiration from notable people throughout history. Philosophy isn't boring when it's applied practically, say in the cause of self-preservation. I see them as individualists who have evaluated their options and find the Ultimates brand of extreme meritocracy to be to their taste. As a GM who will likely run EP, a thought occurs. Play up that transhumanity is still a work in progress. Almost all of the EP factions are new, even if their memes may have been around a while. Ten years isn't so long for societies to evolve in, even with all the fancy new technologies. The Jovians are changing and so are everyone else.
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Redroverone Redroverone's picture
Great thread; couple of thoughts
I'm really amazed at how well this thread has gone on without getting nasty. I just wanted to add a couple of my thoughts upon reading it as a new player. 1) I personally don't find the idea of moons being named after neo-conservative 'heroes' to be ridiculous or cartoonish. If you take the timeline as canon, you're talking that the setting is, what, 80-100 years in the future? Given medical advances and the persistence of very conservative ideologies, it would not surprise me in the least to see at least some morphs that actually knew of (or were) some of the younger figures in our history. If you want an idea, remember Tom Petty in the movie The Postman, when a dazed Kevin Costner says, 'I know you. You were famous.' 2) I pretty much agree with the idea that the Jovians are terrified of what the TITANs did (and could do in the future), but I'd also argue that one of the primary reasons to want to live there is security. Even if you're self limiting in a way that the corebook says most transhumans find horrifying, there's plenty of history that shows a large portion of humanity is quite willing to allow for a loss of personal freedoms in place of security. In particular, I'm reminded of an old quote: "The world can live with tyranny but not with anarchy." They may be restrictive, but they have a powerful military and they don't lean on the same technology that was used to butcher the human race. 3) There's a section in the corebook that describes the comparisons of transhumans and flats that I think carries over to the political/economic argument - one side looks at the other from a position of obvious 'superiority', and I'm sure it rankles a lot of people that the groups that most embrace transhumanism seem to be making out the best in the new reality - but it just may be that that's what happens. No one really complains that agricultural societies fared so much better than hunter/gatherer ones that the latter just almost completely stopped existing because of it. Maybe the Jovians are just comfortable in their curmudgeonly society which will surely fall apart at some point, and certainly seems to be in decline right now.
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branford branford's picture
Redroverone wrote:Maybe the
Redroverone wrote:
Maybe the Jovians are just comfortable in their curmudgeonly society which will surely fall apart at some point, and certainly seems to be in decline right now.
Why would their society necessarily fall apart? Additionally, if you read some of the setting fiction, particularly the end of Morph Recognition Guide, the Jovians may very well be the only part of humanity that survives. This is a horror setting and you must never forget the definition of "eclipse phase."
Panoptic Panoptic's picture
Aye. The Jovian
Aye. The Jovian bioconservatism may actually turn out to be a winning edge against certain x-risks.
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