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Simplifying Armor, Armor Piercing and Damage

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Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
Simplifying Armor, Armor Piercing and Damage
So one of the things that really bugs me is that every weapon has armor piercing, so on top of the math I'm doing to see whether the damage gets through the armor, I'm having to figure out how much armor it ignores, how much that armor is subtracting, and all these other issues that are not fun. If one were to try to simplify it by flattening out armor and armor piercing, how would one do it? Is it a bad idea?
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Leetsepeak wrote:So one of
Leetsepeak wrote:
So one of the things that really bugs me is that every weapon has armor piercing, so on top of the math I'm doing to see whether the damage gets through the armor, I'm having to figure out how much armor it ignores, how much that armor is subtracting, and all these other issues that are not fun. If one were to try to simplify it by flattening out armor and armor piercing, how would one do it? Is it a bad idea?
First of all, that's not entirely true: no conventional ranged weapon has no AP, but some melee and beam weapons lack AP. The reason why there's no flattening is because of the fact that it reflects (in traditional firearms) things like a bullet that doesn't care about particularly light armor. Eclipse Phase includes a fairly limited array of weapons; in AUGC the only weapons I didn't give AP were traditional shotguns, and even that may be a little beyond realism. Keep in mind that sources of armor include things that are most assuredly not bulletproof in any sense of the term, and simply reflect light protection against certain threats. If I were to go back and flatten out armor and AP, I'd need to go back and modify a bunch of the energy weapons; I probably would leave melee combat as-is because I feel like it needs more love, but beam weapons would get weaker, making them an even less favored pick. Increasing damage while decreasing armor penetration may lead to a 1:1 exchange in most play scenarios, as players are unlikely to be totally without any armor, but on the odd circumstances that you actually see someone without armor they're going to be torn through like toilet paper. Touching armor is harder; there are a bunch of different sources of armor, like synthmorph armor and augmentations as well as traditional armor. That's a can of worms that I might just leave untouched.
kowalzcky kowalzcky's picture
As SquireNed said, you
As SquireNed said, you probably will end breaking the game "balance" and probably will finish doing more changes to compensate that.....spiraling out of control. I tried in a couple of games to do a more "realistic" changes to weapons and it was a total mess. The problem with realistic combat is that you always end with a extremelly lethal system that sucks all the fun, or if you go the other way and make it more abstract as you suggest, you end with a totally dull system with not enought "substance" for the players to plat with.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
further with resleaving and
further with resleaving and the OP nature of healing vats super lethal combat in eclipse phase lacks many of the repercussions of a traditional game
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
What do you mean by
What do you mean by flattening armor piercing? Removing it would do a big number on the system, so what weapon would you use as a new baseline?
eaton eaton's picture
Mathing Damage
It *sounds* like one of the frustrations is the occasionally complicated math to determine just how much damage someone took after a shot hits. You've got your raw damage, you've got your AP, and you've got the target's armor, which varies by damage type. AP is subtracted from armor, armor is subtracted from damage, then damage is dealt. Whew. It does feel a little bit odd, but the most confusing part for me has always been that AP is measured in negative numbers. Does that make some back-of-the-napkin math trick easier, or am I missing something? Seems like just having a positive AP value would be more straightforward.
Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
And on top off all that, you
And on top off all that, you ave ove terming it for each shot/burst made per action phase per action turn per character. It's an absolute nightmare.