Reworking Melee Combat: New rules and revamped weapons. Needs more playtesting.

26 posts / 0 new
Last post
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Reworking Melee Combat: New rules and revamped weapons. Needs more playtesting.
EP close combat has been bugging me for a while now. I'll admit upfront that I'm a fan of the “Swords In Space” trope, so melee combat being ineffectual was mildly disappointing anyway, but what really got me is that EP is full of amazingly advanced technology, and no-one thought to apply that to melee weapons. You can have an assault rifle that negates recoil and fires intelligent robot bullets that explode on impact, or a hose that fires the concentrated fury of the sun, or a very pointy stick. No smart-knives which turn into blenders when in the victim, no mounting plasma-rifle-scale magnetics into the weapon to screw with implants, and monofilament-garrottes don't self-repair. So, here's an attempt to rectify the situation. Comments and criticisms are more than welcome, and as the tile title indicates I haven't playtested this as much as it needs so there are probably problems lurking within. Hope it meets your approval :D Rules: The following rules apply to characters engaging in melee combat: Feinting: Characters fighting in close combat may attempt to make their strike more difficult to avoid. Targets attempting to avoid such attacks may only use half their Fray or Melee combat skill to defend against the attack, but the attacker suffers a -60 penalty on their attack roll. The character may expend Quick or Complex actions in an identical manner to Aiming (EP, p190, p193) a ranged weapon prior to the attack, which reduces the penalty to -40 and -20 respectively. Extra Melee Weapons: The use of two or more melee weapons is treated as a single attack, rather than multiple. When attacking a single target, each additional weapon provides a +10 bonus to the attack roll, up to a maximum +30. Off-hand weapon modifiers are ignored. This replaces the normal bonus to damage. Weapon Sets: Melee weapons which could be used as a set such as gloves are purchased as single items, and using more than one counts as using multiple weapons. Skills: The following field skill replaces the Blades, Clubs, and Unarmed skills. ~Melee Weapons: [Field]~ Type: Field, Active, Combat Linked Aptitude: SOM What it is: The Melee skill covers the use of weapons in close combat, as well as combat unarmed or with natural weapons. When you use it: A player uses their Melee skill when attacking in close combat, and may be used instead of Fray to defend against attacks from enemies in close combat. Fields: Light, Standard, Heavy, Bladed, Blunt, Complex. Specializations: If the field is Light, Standard or Heavy then Bladed, Blunt or Complex. If the field is Bladed, Blunt or Complex then Light, Standard or Heavy. Unarmed attacks or attacks with natural weaponry are considered Light and Complex. Melee Weaponry: Melee weapons have come a long way from their antecedents. Built of smart materials and often containing dedicated AIs and sensor suites, modern melee weapons can be more aptly described as weaponized disassembly systems, capable of analysing whatever they're swung at and modifying themselves to maximize their effectiveness. Melee Weapons are available in three categories defined by their size, with each category available in bladed, blunt or complex forms. The effects of each weapon are defined by their category, as the advanced technologies they use render their effects in combat roughly equivalent – their exact physical forms are irrelevant, and largely a function of aesthetics. If desired, they can form an internal canister to hold chemicals, drugs or nanobots, which can be set to release either on contact or when the target is damaged. Light Weapons Weapons which fall in the “Light” category are generally small or simple, and many carry at least one on their person. Knives are the most usual example of Light Bladed Weapons, and Light Blunt Weapons include small clubs and the batons carried by security forces. Light Complex Weapons usually take the form of smartmaterial clothing, such as self-hardening gloves, shoe spikes or bladed hat-rims. Armor Penetration (AP): 0 Damage Value (DV): 1d10 + (SOM/10) Average DV: 5 + (SOM/10) Cost: [Trivial] Palming tests to conceal Light weapons get a +20 bonus. When making an attack with a Light weapon the wielder gains either a +10 bonus to hit, or may increase the DV by 1d10. Standard Weapons What one usually thinks of when picturing melee weaponry, Standard weapons are wielded with one-hand. Standard Bladed weapons include sabres, rapiers and hatchets, whilst hammers and maces make up the bulk of Standard Blunt weapons. Whips and chains are the most popular forms of Standard Complex weapon, often equipped with systems similar to those found in electronic rope to prevent self-injury. Armor Penetration (AP): -2 Damage Value (DV): 2d10 + 2 + (SOM/10) Average DV 13 + (SOM/10) Cost: [Trivial] When making an attack with a Standard weapon the wielder gains either a +10 bonus to hit, or may increase the DV by 1d10. Heavy Weapons Heavy weapons are large weapons which must be wielded with two hands. Longswords and Claymores are popular versions of the Heavy Bladed category, and most habitats will have Heavy Axes available for fire or emergency purposes. Heavy Blunt weapons such as hammers can often be found in the hands of gang enforcers to make them more intimidating, and staves are beloved by those who take a more mystical or spiritual approach to transhuman existence. Heavy Complex weapons are exceedingly rare, the most notorious of which being the smart-fibre garrotte. Armor Penetration (AP): -4 Damage Value (DV): 2d10 +4 + (SOM/10) Average DV: 15 + (SOM/10) Cost: [Trivial] When making an attack with a Heavy weapon the wielder gains either a +20 bonus to hit, or may increase the DV by 2d10. Characters attempting to use Heavy weapons with one hand do not get this bonus. Modifications: Almost all modern melee weapons are equipped with at least one of the following modifications, and it isn't uncommon for a weapon to possess more, although such weapons are usually found in the hands of specialists. To determine the price of a modified weapon, simply add the cost of the weapon and modifications together. The cost of the weapon's blueprint is determined in the same manner. Non-lethal: These weapons are not intended to cause serious injury, and are often used a training implement or in sports. Non-lethal weapons with other modifications are often used by Security personnel or for self-defence. Non-lethal weapons gain -4 AP, but halve any damage dealt. [Trivial] Flex: The smartmaterials in this weapon are programmed to shift it's form to something more innocuous when activated, such such as a piece of clothing or briefcase. Activating this modification requires a Quick action, which can be combined with the action to draw or holster the weapon. Security personnel and weapon scanners can only identify the true nature of these weapons if they score a critical success on a perception check. [Low] Mono-filament: Weapons with this modification are either honed to a monomolecular edge or have their striking surface covered with a monofilament mesh, easily capable of slicing through metal or limbs. Such weapons gain +4 DV, and attack rolls which score an Excellent Success automatically bypass armour. [High] Vibro-: This modification equips the weapon with edged surfaces which vibrate at a high frequency for extra cutting ability. This has little extra effect when stabbing or slashing, but when carefully sawing through something or applying constant pressure with a blunt weapon, this provides an extra –3 AP and +2d10 damage. [Moderate] Shock: Weapons with this modification Shock targets they damage. (See EP. p204) [Moderate] Shredder: The smart materials in these weapons are programmed to reform into serrated barbs once the target has been struck to tear apart flesh and metal, then retract to ease retrieval. Attacks which deal damage deal an extra 1d10 DV. [High] Render: This combination of the Vibro- and Shredder modifications was developed to attack armour, inducing fractures and tearing away nearby material. When this weapon strikes it's target it reduces it's kinetic armour value by 1d10/2. [Moderate] Plasma-Sheath: When activated this modification cloaks the weapon in a softly glowing plasma shell. Essentially an inbuilt bug-zapper, this plasma is much too weak to harm most morphs, but makes an effective countermeasure against nanoswarms.. Attacks made against nanoswarms or morphs with the Swarm Composition augmentation deal 1d10 DV, instead of the 1 DV usually dealt. [Moderate] Augmentations: The Claws bioware implants a Light Complex weapon in two limbs of the bearer's choice, and the Cyberclaws cyberware similarly installs two Standard Complex weapons. Multiple instances of these augmentations may be installed, each time applying to another two limbs. All augmentations may have modifications applied to them as normal, with the exception of the Flex modification. Uplifts may apply modifications to their natural weapons by purchasing a [Low] cost bioware augmentation as a base.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
I like it! Especially the
I like it! Especially the reduction of stats into the base Light/Standard/Heavy with mods. It makes it a lot easier to keep track of things.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Phew. For a moment I thought I'd "Gone Too Far".
Glad you like it :D I was worried that I had gone too far by condensing the weapons, despite the customization options.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
kindalas kindalas's picture
I like it
My only issue is that the base weaponry seems a bit expensive. Your version of the family friendly monowire garotte costs as much as a Plasma Rifle. I would recommend making the base costs be Trivial for all of the weaponry. Because a big ass fire-axe or hammer really shouldn't cost much.
I am a Moderator of this Forum [color=red]My mod voice is red.[/color] The Eclipse Phase Character sheet is downloadable here: [url=http://sites.google.com/site/eclipsephases/home/cabinet] Get it here![/url]
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
kindalas wrote:My only issue
kindalas wrote:
My only issue is that the base weaponry seems a bit expensive. Your version of the family friendly monowire garotte costs as much as a Plasma Rifle. I would recommend making the base costs be Trivial for all of the weaponry. Because a big ass fire-axe or hammer really shouldn't cost much.
Huh. I didn't notice that at first, but I definitely agree. One fix that I can think of is to have the mods be separate purchases that are based on the Light/Standard/Heavy category rather than pushing the price category up. Maybe add something for Complex weapons.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
kindalas kindalas's picture
Well current addons
Well current gun and armor addons are all extra cost instead of cost levels so that could work out.
I am a Moderator of this Forum [color=red]My mod voice is red.[/color] The Eclipse Phase Character sheet is downloadable here: [url=http://sites.google.com/site/eclipsephases/home/cabinet] Get it here![/url]
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Yay constructive critisism!
I may have spent too little time on the costs. Maybe. I admit nothing! I'll do the numbers for having the Mods have distinct prices over the weekend. This will however lead to the somewhat... odd... effect of theoretically being able to manufacture/buy/have-blueprints-for Monofilament-ness without an associated weapon. Unless I explicitly say that mod/weapon combinations have to be taken as distinct sets. Which is completely plausable. Damnit. An alternative I was actually playing around with, but discarded because I was worried about adding another level of complexity, was having the mods actually be installable programs, and/or having basic weapon costs be determined by giving them "slots" for how many mods they could have installed. Would either of these be interesting?
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Version 1.1
Sorry about the delay, I had...issues... this weekend which screwed up my plans. I've edited the OP so that the basic weapons are all trivial, and given the modifications distinct costs which need are combined with the base weapon. Are the new prices more reasonable?
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
Looks good to me.
Looks good to me.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
Looks good! One addition I
Looks good! One addition I have though, is to add another incentive for using melee... albeit by nerfing ranged. Currently, ranged is the multiple attack king. Each limb counts as a seperate attack, and I've found it fairly simple to have the ambidexterity to send 4 limbs worth of death down the range (4 limbs, 2 shots each, burst fire, winds up with 24d10 damage assuming they all hit). Speed then makes this more ridiculous (48d10 at all times with neurachem, 72d10 if activated). So my answer is to remove speed from ranged attacks. While it is conceivable to fire faster with a faster speed, it still doesn't sound right that the person moving 3x as fast means their gun works 3x as fast, especially with burst fire and full auto. Removing speed seems like the best abstraction, or giving weapons a rate of fire they can't exceed. Likewise however, speed makes perfect sense for melee, as it's all about how fast you can swing the weapon. As a result of this, melee would be more useful for those who are strong and fast, while guns would work more or less the same for everyone, though with better multi-wield capabilities.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Hmmm. To the Spreadsheets!
I was under the impression that semi-auto, burst and full-auto are all mutually exclusive, so you would cap at 16d10, 12d10 and 20d10 respectively. Another factor is what you're GM is using for average armor - I tend towards kinetic values for non-minion gang members and similar of 8 to 12, which would render your 4 pistols about as effective as 2 rifles, give or take. In any case, it's an interesting idea. For it to work, you'd have to make it clear that the wielder can't shoot at speed 1, then using a quick action to draw another gun to fire at speed 2. Essentially, using a ranged attack would use up all the physical actions that phase. At that point, it would probably be simplest to repurpose the modes of fire; A single-shot weapon can fire at speed 1, then uses the rest of the complex actions to "reset", an SA can fire at speeds 1 and 2, burst at 1, 2 and 3, and FA at all speeds. Actually, thinking about it, restricting speed may not be the ideal response, as whichever way you do it you'll end up with your ranged characters having a lot of "dead" turns. An easier way would be to either have multiple weapons apply an ever-increasing cap to the wielder's effective skill, or unify the multiple weapon rules for melee and ranged weapons.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:I was
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
I was under the impression that semi-auto, burst and full-auto are all mutually exclusive, so you would cap at 16d10, 12d10 and 20d10 respectively. Another factor is what you're GM is using for average armor - I tend towards kinetic values for non-minion gang members and similar of 8 to 12, which would render your 4 pistols about as effective as 2 rifles, give or take. In any case, it's an interesting idea. For it to work, you'd have to make it clear that the wielder can't shoot at speed 1, then using a quick action to draw another gun to fire at speed 2. Essentially, using a ranged attack would use up all the physical actions that phase. At that point, it would probably be simplest to repurpose the modes of fire; A single-shot weapon can fire at speed 1, then uses the rest of the complex actions to "reset", an SA can fire at speeds 1 and 2, burst at 1, 2 and 3, and FA at all speeds. Actually, thinking about it, restricting speed may not be the ideal response, as whichever way you do it you'll end up with your ranged characters having a lot of "dead" turns. An easier way would be to either have multiple weapons apply an ever-increasing cap to the wielder's effective skill, or unify the multiple weapon rules for melee and ranged weapons.
Restricting weapon speeds seems like a bad idea. The main difference that I see between two people with the same guns and different speeds is aiming speed, not mechanical RoF*. The person with the higher speed is going to be getting their gun back on target (or to a new target) faster than the person with the lower speed. *RoF might come up if someone is using an archaic weapon, but it seems to be covered pretty well by the firing mode for 10AF gear.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Urthdigger wrote:Looks good!
Urthdigger wrote:
Looks good! One addition I have though, is to add another incentive for using melee... albeit by nerfing ranged. Currently, ranged is the multiple attack king. Each limb counts as a seperate attack, and I've found it fairly simple to have the ambidexterity to send 4 limbs worth of death down the range (4 limbs, 2 shots each, burst fire, winds up with 24d10 damage assuming they all hit). Speed then makes this more ridiculous (48d10 at all times with neurachem, 72d10 if activated). So my answer is to remove speed from ranged attacks. While it is conceivable to fire faster with a faster speed, it still doesn't sound right that the person moving 3x as fast means their gun works 3x as fast, especially with burst fire and full auto. Removing speed seems like the best abstraction, or giving weapons a rate of fire they can't exceed. Likewise however, speed makes perfect sense for melee, as it's all about how fast you can swing the weapon. As a result of this, melee would be more useful for those who are strong and fast, while guns would work more or less the same for everyone, though with better multi-wield capabilities.
I'm not sure I agree that increased speed shouldn't effect weapons. Even with a fairly conservative 600 rpm (10 rps) a problem only emerges when firing full auto at speed four, where the rules allow for more shots fired in 3 seconds than the RPM allows for. Assuming every modern EC gun has a rate of fire of at least 800 RPM means it is impossible to exceed a weapons max RoF by the rules. Suppressive fire breaks this further, requiring a weapon to be capable of 1600 RPM in order to keep up suppressive fire for 4 action turns straight. This is really high, but modern firearms can reach it, so there still isn't a big problem for me. I think a better solution is to add the melee some of the complexity that ranged combat has. One option would be to add rates of attack to melee weapons such that multiple attacks can be made in each round. Sort of like Swift and Lightning attack from the WH40k rpgs. Some weapons can make two attacks per complex action, and some can make three. I don't really like this option. I think it would be better yet to allow melee characters attack as though melee weapons had SS/SA/B/FA attack modes, though with better names and to limit certain weapons, such as huge two handed ones from most "modes". I think its the cleanest way to do this. This is basically a more integrated version of option one, which I like more.
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:I
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
I think it would be better yet to allow melee characters attack as though melee weapons had SS/SA/B/FA attack modes, though with better names and to limit certain weapons, such as huge two handed ones from most "modes". I think its the cleanest way to do this. This is basically a more integrated version of option one, which I like more.
That seems like a reasonable and fairly simple hack. Maybe using different "styles" (what I would propose as an alternative to "modes") could be handled as Attack Roll/AP/Damage modifiers, like ammo is for firearms. Example: Say you have a knife. You could go for a powerful lunge and get a bonus to AP and Damage, or you could make wait for the perfect moment and strike precisely to get a bonus to Attack and a lesser bonus to AP.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
When I wanted to increase the
When I wanted to increase the damage potential in one of my games, I allowed two attacks with a melee weapon per Complex Action instead of the usual one. You could instead make a single "Power Shot", which let you double damage if your attack connected. You were more likely to overcome armor and deal wounds that way, but had to declare it before rolling and possibly waste a second attack. It worked really well, enabling all the dramatic one-shot knockouts and decapitations that make melee combat so interesting. It was especially good with two-handed weapons, and made them a viable option in place of Ambidexterity. Not sure how you would work that in with only one attack per Complex Action. (Other little things that helped: increasing Damage Bonus from SOM/10 to SOM/5, and then SOM/3 for two-handed weapons. I also allowed free attacks at enemies backing away once engaged so that they couldn't just back up 2 meters and shoot without risk, and free attacks against knocked down opponents standing up, which made knockdowns more dangerous in melee. Yes, this is a straight rip of D&D's mechanics, but it similarly enhanced the aesthetic of combat by forcing engaged characters with assault rifles to fall back on clubbing with their stocks)
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
I return from my Yuletide Sojurn!
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
I think it would be better yet to allow melee characters attack as though melee weapons had SS/SA/B/FA attack modes, though with better names and to limit certain weapons, such as huge two handed ones from most "modes".
This is actually where I started from when thinking about how to improve melee. That's why the base weapons in the OP get to apply a bonus to hit or damage. In any case, I've had another idea regarding ranged attack modes: SA/BF/FA can be used to grant a +10, +20 or +30 to hit respectively, or they allow you to roll additional damage dice (1d10, 2d10 or 3d10) which don't stack with the base damage. For example, when firing a light pistol full auto the player would roll 5d10 and take the 2 highest values. This skews the average damage towards the maximum, but the solid cap it provides means that that multiple weapons won't ramp damage to unmanagable levels, whilst increasing the importance of AP and set damage increases.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
The major problem that I see
The major problem that I see with that is that it doesn't scale well to weapons that don't roll 2d10 for damage.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
What did I miss?
How do you mean? I did the math* for values from 1d10 to 6d10, and whilst scaling isn't linear, I wouldn't call it "bad" considering absolute damage potential, and in no way worse than the rules as-is. The only value that's even moderately screwy is 1d10 weapons, and even then it's pretty tame. *well... I used AnyDice. I'm not that insane. Yet.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
It just seems to be
It just seems to be underwhelming to me.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
That seems reasonable.
Well it is a nerf :P For comparison, when using full auto: A 1d10 weapon would deal an average of 8.47 DV, with 10 DV being the most common result (100% of max) with a 34.39% chance. A 2d10 weapon would deal an average of 15.96 DV, with 18 DV being the most common result (90% of max) and an 8.15% chance of dealing 20 DV. A 3d10 weapon on full auto would deal an average of 22.88 DV, with 24 DV being the most common result (80% of max) and an 1.58% chance of dealing 30 DV. Now consider that full auto as written would give a 100% potential damage increase for a 3d10 weapon, and a 400% increase to a 1d10 weapon. Anything's going to be underwhelming compared to that.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
Bear in mind the armor values
Bear in mind the armor values we're dealing with as a result of advanced materials science. A fully armored and reasonably augmented biomorph will have something around 20+ points of damage reduction before you apply the weapon's AP. This applies even more strongly to synthmorphs. I'm definitely in favor of retooling melee damage to facilitate "swords in space" and diversify the combat experience, but at those values it would be difficult to kill anyone before they closed with you. I think it's better to just boost damage on melee weapons as you've already done, and then to insert some better mechanics to make melee "stick" better, so that a rushed enemy can't just back up and shoot point blank without some risk. This will keep combat situations suitably varied and deadly, sometimes gunning down melee types before they close, and other times closing quickly and forcing the gunner into a futile hand-to-hand defense.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Which should deal more damage - the bullet or the broadsword?
Soviet Onion wrote:
Bear in mind the armor values we're dealing with as a result of advanced materials science. A fully armored and reasonably augmented biomorph will have something around 20+ points of damage reduction before you apply the weapon's AP. This applies even more strongly to synthmorphs. I'm definitely in favor of retooling melee damage to facilitate "swords in space" and diversify the combat experience, but at those values it would be difficult to kill anyone before they closed with you.
Working as intended. :P As I said above, armor value distribution is something that varies greatly from game to game; a while back I had a discussion with ShadowDragon8656, where he equated 14/14 with an armored car. Whilst I'm much more generous with armor than that, I still consider values of 20+ appropriate for military (or equivalent) equipment. It's also not as though there aren't multiple other ways of dealing with armor, such as disassemblers, called shots to penetrate armor, and so on. And really, if my players are freaking out because their weapons can barely penetrate the carapace of the exhuman killing machine coming to steal thier kidneys, then all the better :D
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
[Working as intended. :P As I said above, armor value distribution is something that varies greatly from game to game; a while back I had a discussion with ShadowDragon8656, where he equated 14/14 with an armored car.
Really? I said that? In the context of Eclipse Phase? Wow. My opinions have seriously been revised up since then. Nowadays I'd peg an armored car at something like in the area of 28 or so. On the light side.
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
Crits Too
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
It's also not as though there aren't multiple other ways of dealing with armor, such as disassemblers, called shots to penetrate armor, and so on.
There are criticals as well. They automatically ignore armor, IIRC.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
My brain is full of ideas. Too full.
I think I should admit at this point that I'm allowing personal bias to color my thinking - I'm not a fan of damage values high enough to enable one-shoting. Honestly, I'd prefer to use the drop-lowest principle on multiple weapon attacks, instead of having it apply as a damage multiplier, but I can't figure out how to get it to apply and still be coherent. I also thought about having multiple weapons being treated as a single attack, but ignoring additional d10s, so that only static bonuses and/or ammo modifiers apply, but that can be take a lot of time to work out in play. Come on, fellow forum members! Let's get those discussion muscles pumping! :P
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Soviet Onion Soviet Onion's picture
One thing I decided to do
One thing I decided to do with my game that helped bump ranged weapons down a tier: don't make smartlinks standard on them. Players have to purchase a smartlink if they want one, and they can be used on melee weapons as well (targeting data also consists of spotting openings in a defense, mapping the whole geometry of as per an old fencing manual). That's a -10 to hit with them right there. I find it also ads a plausible layer of grittiness to further contrast high end military grade weapons. It also makes the hacking and reprogramming of Inner System public fabbers to print guns possible, since public fabbers can't print electronics.