Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

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bakho bakho's picture
Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

[To: EcoWave]
[From: Khünbish neOdo]
[Location: Odoist Habitat One, Jupiter Trojans]
[Subject: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook - Preface]
[Rep score: 80]

I have never seen the sundown on Earth. I have never dug my toes into the beaches of the Mediterranean Sea. I have never listened to the night sounds of the Amazon, the movement and trashing of life in its folds. I have never wet my feet in the currents of Yangtze River. I have never. And probably, I never will.

You might ask - who really gives a fuck? Who cares for what you've missed or for your petty theatrics. Well, I care.

We've destroyed the planet that gave birth to us. Humanity was a tumor growing on Earth's face - transhumanity was and still is a Siamese twin grown from that tumor, that suckled on its host and left it a dry husk after it was done. We are a plague. You speak about TITANs, about the atrocities of the Fall? We were the Fall for everything else that lived on Earth. Birds felt the Fall when our crude plants churned out CO2 in the atmosphere. Trees felt the Fall when the acid rains returned it to the ground. The fish, the plankton, the whales felt the Fall when our oil spills covered the oceans. And this is just what humanity has done. When the TITAN swarms swallowed whole cities, devoured millions of transhumans - it was only the last nail in the millennium old coffin that we were making for Earth. She was a battered old thing when the tactical nukes detonated, the antimatter warheads dug craters in her face. It was only the headshot, after centuries of torture.

Now, again, some of you might ask - why should I give a fuck? Well, you don't have to actually. The Planetary Consortium is doing that for you. They're saying, leave Earth to the petty reclaimers and the nostalgics. Turn your gleeful face to new territory to claim - Mars is waiting, Venus is waiting, Titan, Europa and the thousands and thousands of planets are waiting on the other side of the Pandora Gates and are just under our fingertips. We can colonize. Build. Terraform. Multiply. Expand. Devour. Gorge. Plant. Seed. Modify. Use. Destroy. Interestingly, nobody notices what terraform actually means. It means to create in the likeness of Terra, our Mother. To do to other planets what we've done to her. And I, neOdo, from the anarchist unlawful pits of vile agree in this with the Planetary Consortium - forget Earth. But also, forget Mars. Forget Venus. Forget Titan. Forget Europa. Forget the thousands of planets on the other side of the Gates.

Don't devour another planet. Not now, that the Siamise twin called transhumanity has the capability to dwell among the lifeless stars. We can create and multiply here, in the dead of space. We can grow, as the tumor, the virus, the plague, that we are among the stars; and leave the diversity of life to yet again claim the planets that could give birth to another Amazon, Mediterranean, Yangtze River, whale or ant. Leave the planets. Leave. The. Planets.

[Download the whole Odoist Cookbook here. Spread it around, because Mars and all the other places need it.]

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Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

But we're already on Mars and Venus and Titan and Europa. Where would you suggest we go? Into space habitats? I suppose you're going to build them yourself? I've spent 9 years building habs and only ever seen two finished, all for the right to my own flesh with my own lungs which breath this beautiful nanofabbed air. I'm not giving any part of that up just because some treehugger says planets are sacred.

Earth grew us as part of its ecosystem, we ARE the Amazon and the Mediterranean and the Yangtze. (Some of us are actually whales and ants too, but that's beside the point.) We have the capability to terraform worlds better than Dear Mummy Earth ever could. I've never seen a transhuman nanoswarm pollute atmospheres or choke pwecious widdle birdies. (And you don't need to tell me what TITAN nanoswarms can do. Believe me.)

I'm not forgetting our home. I'm not going to let someone else tell me what sort of bed I can sleep in, or what I can or can't eat, and I'm not letting you tell me to stay in some tincan hab so we can watch the pretty bugs eat each other on OUR planets.

And that goes for you AND the Planetary Consortium.




I want that planet back

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

[To: EcoWave]
[From: Khünbish neOdo]
[Location: Odoist Habitat One, Jupiter Trojans]
[Subject: Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook - Preface]
[Rep score: 80]

Xahn Borealis wrote:
But we're already on Mars and Venus and Titan and Europa. Where would you suggest we go? Into space habitats? I suppose you're going to build them yourself? I've spent 9 years building habs and only ever seen two finished, all for the right to my own flesh with my own lungs which breath this beautiful nanofabbed air. I'm not giving any part of that up just because some treehugger says planets are sacred.

Spoken like a true macro-virus that you are. Why, indeed, would you leave the host that will feed you until you discard it like we did Earth? Would a biological virus strain leave its host because of 'consciousness' or 'respect' for what the host is, and more importantly, the potential that the host has? No. It wouldn't. And this argument that building space habs is too inefficient is rather hypocritical; when you build orbital mirrors to heat Mars, drag icebergs from the Outer System to feed Venus with oxygen, genehack the European native life to suit your petty little transhuman needs. Saying that building habs in space is a chore, after all that your Terragenesis corp-zombies and Barsoomian nanoecologist 'rebels' do to terraform; it's a really fun lie to throw in the face of the tree-huggers.

I do not want to insult you. But I somewhat doubt you could be made to realize what your petty feelings of possessional pride do to beings that cannot fight back; you being drown in the mindset of a planetary conqueror, the owner of the soil and the atmosphere and the metal shells you've built around yourself. The moment you realize you don't own anything, not even your meme-ridden thoughts, is the moment you'll be free.

Xahn Borealis wrote:
Earth grew us as part of its ecosystem, we ARE the Amazon and the Mediterranean and the Yangtze. (Some of us are actually whales and ants too, but that's beside the point.) We have the capability to terraform worlds better than Dear Mummy Earth ever could. I've never seen a transhuman nanoswarm pollute atmospheres or choke pwecious widdle birdies. (And you don't need to tell me what TITAN nanoswarms can do. Believe me.)

The polution mentioned in the preface was speaking about our predecessor, the humans. I don't need to speak about what we'd done to Dear Mummy Earth - you can look through a Lagrange station and see for yourself. There's no argumentative proof that I can offer and that can beat that sight. And again, you mention our capabilities to 'terraform', but building space habitats is out of our reach. It's too complicated for the powerless little fragile transhumans. Oh yes. Indeed. Have you ever seen Locus? The throngs that live in its confines? Have you ever seen Extropia? Nova York? OH1? I'm not talking that we should live in some catbox brinker cluster habs. We can build cities that overshadow your Noctis-Qinajiaos or Elysiums far from the gravity wells of Mars or Venus. We can, but we won't. Because we are the conquerors. We are you.

Interestingly, you again mention what trasnhumanity can do; but only a few lines above, you were whining about the 'difficulties' of hab construction in space. Really, what are we, the fragile children of Earth lost far away from home or mighty conquerors of Sol and the exoplanets?

Xahn Borealis wrote:
I'm not forgetting our home. I'm not going to let someone else tell me what sort of bed I can sleep in, or what I can or can't eat, and I'm not letting you tell me to stay in some tincan hab so we can watch the pretty bugs eat each other on OUR planets.

And that goes for you AND the Planetary Consortium.

Oh. You misunderstood me. I'm far from telling you what sort of bed you can sleep in. But, hey, it's not like you chose that bed for yourself, did you now? I'm just trying to offer you a perspective you might've never imagined existing. If you do as much in return, I'd be more than grateful, because this fascist planet ownership drizzle is old as tweencen Earth. Just sayin'.

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nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Xahn Borealis wrote:
I've never seen a transhuman nanoswarm pollute atmospheres or choke pwecious widdle birdies. (And you don't need to tell me what TITAN nanoswarms can do. Believe me.)

Obviously you've never seen what can be done with a Proteus nanoswarm; turning one into grey goo is childplay. No, seriously, I'm not joking; this is the sort of thing a script kiddie could do. No, I'm not going to tell you how, since I don't want any idiot kids reading this and trying it. Somehow I doubt all those nanoswarms unleashed during the Fall were TITAN nanoswarms, even if the ones still alive are.

Also, LOL bioconservatives and enviromentalists. I can't be bothered reading your drivel, so I'll just call you both and be done with it.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

nick012000 wrote:
Also, LOL bioconservatives and enviromentalists. I can't be bothered reading your drivel, so I'll just call you both and be done with it.

Well, I guess there is a purpose in using bombs in communicating with some people.

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root root's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook


"What's wrong with being a virus? Is a virus not a form of life? Why protect some types of biodiversity while demonizing others? There are functional reasons to do as you suggest, but your arguments are based solely on pathos, and so won't sway anyone of a logical nature, or anyone following an ideology. If you were to clear up some of your arguments, it is possible that I could be lead to agree with you."

[ @-rep +1 | c-rep +1 | g-rep +1 | r-rep +1 ]

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root wrote:
root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook

"What's wrong with being a virus? Is a virus not a form of life? Why protect some types of biodiversity while demonizing others? There are functional reasons to do as you suggest, but your arguments are based solely on pathos, and so won't sway anyone of a logical nature, or anyone following an ideology. If you were to clear up some of your arguments, it is possible that I could be lead to agree with you."

"What's wrong with being a virus? Is a virus not a form of life? Why protect some types of biodiversity while demonizing others? There are functional reasons to do as you suggest, but your arguments are based solely on pathos, and so won't sway anyone of a logical nature, or anyone following an ideology. If you were to clear up some of your arguments, it is possible that I could be lead to agree with you."

"A flawed analogy. A figure of speech. Rhetorical play of words. Interesting, that meme-eating sloths analyze a preface to a book like it's some damn scientific article. Like it depleted the whole idea behind planet preservation. But, I agree with you. The preface and the introductions of the book are the pathos (hey, we live in the world that we live), but there's some logos in there too. Transhumanity is not a virus. It's an existential risk, to everything surrounding it and in the end to itself too. You don't write a book like this with a preface looking like a research paper in formal logic, now do you?

But the virus-host analogy has its limits, especially when examined more carefully. If a virus could destroy a whole biosphere (like, lets say a supernova), we'd be that. Now, come to think of it, we're more like a supernova. A ticking bomb. If we blow up in our own solitude, lost in the desert of space, we'll end up killing only ourselves. Boo hoo. If we end up blowing up surrounded by life, we end up wiping out everything that surrounds us.

I don't have anything against viruses (well, I do if they end up killing my sleeve or making me spend time in a healing vat, but not on the crusading 'lets wipe them out' level). After all, as you've said, they're life too. But we're far more deadly than a simple virus. We're the terraformers."

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root root's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook


bakho wrote:
"You don't write a book like this with a preface looking like a research paper in formal logic, now do you?"

"You certainly could if you were writing it as a formal logic argument, but I take your point. I am overvaluing the logos side of an argument because I prefer arguing on my turf, so you are more than correct to chastise me for insisting on an advantage. We'll play by pathos.

"As a meme-eating sloth, my hearing is bad, my eyes are weak, and I grow my own food on my stomach. In fact, as a meme-eating sloth, my greatest advantage comes from my own ineptitude. You see, my senses are so very bad, move so slowly, and my thoughts are so glacially slow, that predators misidentify me as part of the tree branch I am hanging from. The sloth is the mighty king of the jungle, and has the prehistoric monster of an ancestor to prove it.

"If I were to take the analogy of a sloth to the realm of civilization, this sloth is pretty much the living style you are suggesting. We hang out in space and move really slowly, grow our food on our fur so we just have to lick out stomachs to eat, and chill out for, like, evar. We even had a monstrosity of an ancestor, if you want to torture the analogy to get a little more out of it.

"So, I submit to you: your perfect EcoWave civilization bears a striking resemblance to a tree sloth. No disrespect to any uplifted tree sloths."

[ @-rep +1 | c-rep +1 | g-rep +1 | r-rep +1 ]

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root wrote:
root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook

bakho wrote:
"You don't write a book like this with a preface looking like a research paper in formal logic, now do you?"

"You certainly could if you were writing it as a formal logic argument, but I take your point. I am overvaluing the logos side of an argument because I prefer arguing on my turf, so you are more than correct to chastise me for insisting on an advantage. We'll play by pathos.

"As a meme-eating sloth, my hearing is bad, my eyes are weak, and I grow my own food on my stomach. In fact, as a meme-eating sloth, my greatest advantage comes from my own ineptitude. You see, my senses are so very bad, move so slowly, and my thoughts are so glacially slow, that predators misidentify me as part of the tree branch I am hanging from. The sloth is the mighty king of the jungle, and has the prehistoric monster of an ancestor to prove it.

"If I were to take the analogy of a sloth to the realm of civilization, this sloth is pretty much the living style you are suggesting. We hang out in space and move really slowly, grow our food on our fur so we just have to lick out stomachs to eat, and chill out for, like, evar. We even had a monstrosity of an ancestor, if you want to torture the analogy to get a little more out of it.

"So, I submit to you: your perfect EcoWave civilization bears a striking resemblance to a tree sloth. No disrespect to any uplifted tree sloths."

"Oh. If tweencen American 'culture' didn't do that to us, I doubt moving our households to zero gee would. But point taken. Luckily, I doubt the hyperpreservationist agenda will ever result in a a monumental and perfect EcoWave civilization. That's an oxymoron in my book."

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root root's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook


bakho wrote:

"I doubt the hyperpreservationist agenda will ever result in a a monumental and perfect EcoWave civilization. That's an oxymoron in my book."

"Well, if an Odoist Preservationaist isn't a Hyperpreservationist, what are they, exactly?"

[ @-rep +1 | c-rep +1 | g-rep +1 | r-rep +1 ]

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

"I don't know. You tell me. I never had a good grasp of all those -isms most transhumans hold dear to...but I know I've been labeled as an adherent of hyperpreservationism. I guess preservationism doesn't cut it anymore. We've went radical. Oh no. What would mother say?"

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root root's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

root@Odoist Preservationist Cookbook


"Oh, hey, a darkcast about OH1, I think I'll read that. I have to say that I didn't know about the darkcast archive before I followed your link there, so thanks for the info. I'll get back to you on what -ism I want to smear you with."

bakho e-rep++; //for the darkcast entry

bakho i-rep++; //for helping develop and inter-mesh the EP site (I didn't know the Firewall darkcast existed, and now I do). This rep++ might have to be checked with sysop, as I'm not part of the dev team, and they may desire to keep the i-rep faction as something only they hand out.

[ @-rep +1 | c-rep +1 | g-rep +1 | r-rep +1 ]

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

bakho wrote:

I do not want to insult you.

Woops.

bakho wrote:

But I somewhat doubt you could be made to realize what your petty feelings of possessional pride do to beings that cannot fight back; you being drown in the mindset of a planetary conqueror, the owner of the soil and the atmosphere and the metal shells you've built around yourself. The moment you realize you don't own anything, not even your meme-ridden thoughts, is the moment you'll be free.
...
Really, what are we, the fragile children of Earth lost far away from home or mighty conquerors of Sol and the exoplanets?
...
this fascist planet ownership drizzle is old as tweencen Earth. Just sayin'.

You're right. I'm nothing but a tyrant, trying to oppress those planets, tell them what to do. From now on, I'll just listen to what the planets tell me to do! That's wierd! They're silent!

Also, you say we are a virus and a supernova and that our self destruction is inevitable, so the decent thing to do is go hide in some black corner and go out with a whimper. Consider this. If we terraform rampantly with every tool at our disposal, both in and out the system, we need not go out at all.




I want that planet back

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Xahn Borealis wrote:
bakho wrote:

I do not want to insult you.

Woops.

"I lie sometimes. But you insys corpses know all about that, now don't you?"

Xahn Borealis wrote:
You're right. I'm nothing but a tyrant, trying to oppress those planets, tell them what to do. From now on, I'll just listen to what the planets tell me to do! That's wierd! They're silent!

"Making a straw man out of my argument doesn't say anything about me or the preservationist agenda. It does say a lot about your prejudice toward people who actually posses a degree of ecological awareness. As I've said before, and I shall reiterate now, people with mindsets like yours have killed one whole planet already. And you sure don't seem to be stopping anytime soon. I'm not whining. Just stating why I, at some point, switch from an argumentative mesh discussion to thermobaric charges. It's not like I haven't tried, but talking to corpses is akin to talking to a dildo-bot AI. You shouldn't expect argumentative feedback - you'll only get screwed in the end."

Xahn Borealis wrote:
Consider this. If we terraform rampantly with every tool at our disposal, both in and out the system, we need not go out at all.

"Explain."

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Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

I don't pretend to know anything about politics or arguing or any 'memetic' shit like that. Addressing your earlier point, you are telling me what bed I can sleep in. My bed's on Earth. You insult me because your agenda of stifling transhumanity's existence and stagnating our technological progress by restricting our access to planetary resources and living space is offensive to me, if only in respect to what we lost during the Fall. Earth. Millions died, yes, but millions have died before. Now we can't go home. And that's wrong.

It puzzles me that the makers of the EcoWave network decided to lump agendas like yours in with mine. Or rather, why the reclaimers are seen as an eco-agenda.

For me, it's not an ideology, not a faction, not a cultural clade or whatever. I just want Earth back.

bakho wrote:
Xahn Borealis wrote:

Consider this. If we terraform rampantly with every tool at our disposal, both in and out the system, we need not go out at all.

"Explain."

If there was another Fall, and we all lived in space habs, we simply would not survive. Nova York, Extropia and Locus, and not forgetting your wonderful OH1 are all so wonderful, but would every space hab be like that? What's to stop a new wave of TITANs or any other threat from simply putting a hole in your architectural marvels? Fact. Space habs are vulnerable. And let's say this never happens and transhumanity itself is the only threat we ever encounter. Even a war spanning the whole galaxy could never wipe out all of us.

And now I'm done. It's clear to me that what the two of us want is simply so different that further discussion is pointless. At least to me. I have better things to do. I'm going home.

(And don't you lump me in with the Planetary Consortium either. They're just dicks. Maybe we can agree on that?)




I want that planet back

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Xahn Borealis wrote:
I don't pretend to know anything about politics or arguing or any 'memetic' shit like that. Addressing your earlier point, you are telling me what bed I can sleep in. My bed's on Earth. You insult me because your agenda of stifling transhumanity's existence and stagnating our technological progress by restricting our access to planetary resources and living space is offensive to me, if only in respect to what we lost during the Fall. Earth. Millions died, yes, but millions have died before. Now we can't go home. And that's wrong.

It puzzles me that the makers of the EcoWave network decided to lump agendas like yours in with mine. Or rather, why the reclaimers are seen as an eco-agenda.

For me, it's not an ideology, not a faction, not a cultural clade or whatever. I just want Earth back.

"Bravo. Your pathos is even more sophisticated than the one I offered in the preface. But, you're right. On a personal level, I don't or will never know what you lost when Earth fell. But...what you call home, to me and many others (and many more by the day) is only a still steaming piece of shit that our ancestors left in inheritance. Oh. You're the said ancestor. I can't tell you that your nostalgia is wrong or that you should stop indulging it, you can lead your life in any way you wish. But note that the generations that come after you, us who were born far from Earth, have no personal nostalgia. I have the intellectual understanding that transhumanity has a fatal influence on any ecosystem it inhabits - and if it is so, why destroy ecosystems that needn't be destroyed? That's what Earth is for me, not a destroyed and long lost home. It's a reminder of what not to do.

Oh, so you only join networks where you expect everybody will agree with you? Well, sorry for that friend. Maybe some of the Junta forums would be a better spot for your tender sensibilities? (joke, :P)

And for me, wanting to free the planets of our pestilence is not an ideology, not a faction, not a cultural clade or whatever. It's my home."

Xahn Borealis wrote:
If there was another Fall, and we all lived in space habs, we simply would not survive. Nova York, Extropia and Locus, and not forgetting your wonderful OH1 are all so wonderful, but would every space hab be like that? What's to stop a new wave of TITANs or any other threat from simply putting a hole in your architectural marvels? Fact. Space habs are vulnerable. And let's say this never happens and transhumanity itself is the only threat we ever encounter. Even a war spanning the whole galaxy could never wipe out all of us.

"Oh. They're vulnerable, aren't they now? And planets are what, the perfect defensive solution? When the TITANs came, all our eggs were in the same basket. You do know what happened to that basket now, being a reclaimer. It got eaten by the big bad boogie-man. Not a really sophisticated defensive strategy, planetary colonization, now is it? If you consider the nano-plagues and the Exsurgents, a vast number of separated and physically isolated habs are a much better position to defend. Yes, many would fall. But we wouldn't lose the whole basket."

Xahn Borealis wrote:
And now I'm done. It's clear to me that what the two of us want is simply so different that further discussion is pointless. At least to me. I have better things to do. I'm going home.

(And don't you lump me in with the Planetary Consortium either. They're just dicks. Maybe we can agree on that?)

I wouldn't say it's pointless. Well, it would be pointless if my point was to persuade you from your atavistic homesick nostalgia. I cannot offer you a substitute for what you lost, nobody in the universe probably can't. And, to tell you the truth, Earth is on the far end of our priorities. It's life was already (almost) annihilated and mutilated to no end. Not much to save there, so you can have it. The other places, our 'colonization endeavors', that's what I'm interested in the most.

And I'm truly sorry for lumping you in with the PC (no sarcasm this time). I am transhuman too in the end, and the 'inner system - shoot, then ask' reaction is hard to control more often than not. Mea culpa."

OOC: +1 e-rep Xahn, if you care for that stuff. Offering a seemingly incompatible e-view is always stimulating.

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The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

nick012000 wrote:
Obviously you've never seen what can be done with a Proteus nanoswarm; turning one into grey goo is childplay. No, seriously, I'm not joking; this is the sort of thing a script kiddie could do. No, I'm not going to tell you how, since I don't want any idiot kids reading this and trying it.

Or smart corrosives. One of my remotes once ran into a hacked smart drainage channel cleaner that ate a two meter wide hole in a deckplate.



Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

bakho wrote:
I'm not whining. Just stating why I, at some point, switch from an argumentative mesh discussion to thermobaric charges. It's not like I haven't tried, but talking to corpses is akin to talking to a dildo-bot AI.

Wait, thermobaric charges? Was that you on Vo Nguyen? You TITANfucker, you set back years of research and delayed 3 Earthward expeditions by fuck knows how long. Let me tell you what sort of person I am. I'm a survivor. I survived the TITANs and their nanovirii, the Fall and all the skronked-up wars we waged on each other, and the Planetary Consortium, who lovingly spaced me rather than let some cheap piece-of-shit breathe their precious air. I nearly asphyxiated with nothing between me and the burning Earth, so don't tell me to stop indulging nostalgia, you fucking neoprim.

I'm a reclaimer because Earth should be ours, and mine, and yours, not the TITANs', and not the Planetary Consortium's. It is not a symbol of what we are, it's a symbol of what we could be. A species with a homeworld, we've earned and fought for. It is also a gold mine. I would put rep on the fact that well over 99% of morphs in the solar system right now can breathe oxygen. And where is that STILL found, and in abundance?Living space is one of the most expensive things in the inner system for those who can't build our pretty space habs, and the planets are what we need. If we go on terraforming planets on both sides of the Pandora Gates, millions of infugees and clanking masses can be reembodied in flesh of their choosing. Can you promise the same for the destitute, terrorist?

And one more thing. If I ever see you in the LLA again, your stack is mine. You're just lucky I didn't have to resleeve, I was BORN in this morph, and I don't intend to die in it or any other for that matter, especially not by your hand.

[OOC: Thanks for the rep, reciprocated! +1 e-rep. As for me caring, while I do identify most with the reclaimers than any other EP fac, I'm actually posting as a character I built the other day on a reclamation kick. In this post, I'm referring to a terrorist attack on Vo Nguyen, which apparently happens quite often according to Sunward, so I'm assuming from your comment about the charges, that you're implying involvement. Said attack is purely made up for the purposes of this thread and I don't mean to offend you OOC, but hopefully escalate the IC discussion and see how much we'll fight for our respective causes!]




I want that planet back

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Xahn Borealis wrote:
Wait, thermobaric charges? Was that you on Vo Nguyen? You TITANfucker, you set back years of research and delayed 3 Earthward expeditions by fuck knows how long. Let me tell you what sort of person I am. I'm a survivor. I survived the TITANs and their nanovirii, the Fall and all the skronked-up wars we waged on each other, and the Planetary Consortium, who lovingly spaced me rather than let some cheap piece-of-shit breathe their precious air. I nearly asphyxiated with nothing between me and the burning Earth, so don't tell me to stop indulging nostalgia, you fucking neoprim.

I wasn't involved in the particular incident, but I'm familiar with the attack. Our primary targets are not reclaimers, or ever will be. We're not neo-primitivists, though in some aspects, I'm in solidarity with their agendas (not all). And, for what you call terrorist acts that are committed by Odoist freedom fighters - we usually try to avoid damaging or destroying morphs. Infrastructure is our primary target. But, I repeat, we have never acted against Vo Nguyen, at least not as the Odoist movement, neo-primitvitist members excluded.

Xahn Borealis wrote:
I'm a reclaimer because Earth should be ours, and mine, and yours, not the TITANs', and not the Planetary Consortium's. It is not a symbol of what we are, it's a symbol of what we could be. A species with a homeworld, we've earned and fought for. It is also a gold mine. I would put rep on the fact that well over 99% of morphs in the solar system right now can breathe oxygen. And where is that STILL found, and in abundance?Living space is one of the most expensive things in the inner system for those who can't build our pretty space habs, and the planets are what we need. If we go on terraforming planets on both sides of the Pandora Gates, millions of infugees and clanking masses can be reembodied in flesh of their choosing. Can you promise the same for the destitute, terrorist?

And one more thing. If I ever see you in the LLA again, your stack is mine. You're just lucky I didn't have to resleeve, I was BORN in this morph, and I don't intend to die in it or any other for that matter, especially not by your hand.

Terrorism, contrary to popular belief, is not our main objective. It's just a side job. We're builders first, but when you cannot argue your way into stopping your hpyercorporations from terraforming, you use other avenues of disturbing their activity. And I'm not using euphemisms. We destroy. We kill. Sometimes even those who have nothing with it, and would in some way join our cause. I know that, and I will have to live with it for as long as I live. I know that terrorism will never stop the terraforming projects on Mars, Venus or Europa, or the countless exoplanets. But it will slow them down and that may mean something in the future of our struggle.

As for living space and the poor destitute - that's not a problem of oxygen, ecology or technological capabilities of building. Now, in 10AF, that's a problem of your fucking economy in the Inner System. Of course your people live like trash and are treated like trash - but that's because it's not in the corporate interest to house and offer those people the necessities of basic transhuman life. It's much more profitable to keep them to heel, indentured, poor, stricken of their freedoms or even their bodies. That's the way vertical possessional bureaucracies work, and your 'cyberdemocracy' is no different. I'm not saying they're doing this on purpose (I don't know if they are), but that's the way things work when your economic model is build on haves and have-nots. That's your responsibility and mine to change. So don't whine to me about all the poor clanking masses in Lunar cities or Martian souks - I've been there, talked to those people, organized syndicates and riots, fought with them and died there. And then, I've bombed them. You can call me a monster - but what are you? When you whine and stomp your futile little feet over a dead planet when your fellow transhumans are living like shit. I ask - what are you?

Hell, I've given my body to the infugees that managed to reach OH1. The body I was born with, and here you threaten me with murder because your poor little sleeve was almost murdered in a terrorist attack? Well, I can only say, fuck you.

In the end, the only thing I can say - you're not my enemy. Not ideologically or in any other way. I do not wish you harm, or will I ever do you harm if I can help it. Your Inner System Terragenesis, Ecologene, Pathfinder, and a whole swarm of other slave run terraformers and exploiters and the people who run them are my opponents. Heck, in a different universe, I'd consider you an ally. And you me the same.

[OOC: Of course, it's all IC fun. And it is really fun, if I can add. I'm writing, as said in the first post, from the perspective of Khunbish neOdo, an OH1 Odoist. There's a short snippet of her biography at the Darkcast entry on OH1, and some of the terrorist acts she was involved in. And as it's an IC discussion, feel free to act in any way your character would - I will try to do the same!]

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bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

I've managed to get my hands on some confidential transcripts from a sympathetic soul in Pathfinder. Here it is:

[Transcript from the personal log of Rodolfo Cavazos, Chief Astrobiologist, XenoPharma

I had all three of those argonaut pricks expelled from our station and sent back home today. The gall of those freeloaders to expect us to just hand over all of our research and data, just because life on Mishipizheu is now considered “endangered.” Apparently they don’t understand business models; we’re not pursuing this research at great expense because we feel like being altruistic and sharing it with everyone, we’re here to capitalize on genetic and biotech patents. Their open science ideology is too influenced by outer system dogma. If they want to reap the rewards of studying Mishipizheu’s ecosystems, they can pay to do it themselves—only they can’t, because we splurged on an exclusive contract with Go-nin for sole bio-genetic exploitation rights on this exoplanet. Guess they’ll just have to find their own exoplanet.]

The argonaut agenda is noble, if misguided. They're petitioning with this Cavazos monster only because the Mishipizheu ecosystem is under imminent threat of destruction - I agree, we should try to salvage as much as possible and leave the planet to die in its course of life. But, you see, even here, the only thing that the corpses involved can grasp is exploitation. Not only are they actively disturbing this ecosystem, and dozens if not hundreds more, but they won't move a finger to help and save its diversity for future study or propagation. They'll use it and discard it. Whatever you might think of us, and our goals, this blatant example of the disregard and disrespect the mighty 'colonizators' have for their 'colonies' should more than illustrate what we're up against.

Spread this transcript because who knows how long will it take them to take it down.

Free the planets, be them in our solar system or exploplanets.

[OOC: The actual transcript is taken from Gatecrashing, p. 108]

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Reading signal.
Ego ID identi-
Error. Ego ID not found in messa-
Ego ID found: Moonbat Q. Environut

Transhumans! You must listen! Leave space! Leave the asteroids! You are a tumor! A virus! Go live on planets! You despoil the natural, beautiful rocks and ice that could one day form beautiful crystals, collapse into a black hole, or form a star! Already, we have despoiled our home system, building colonies and habitats, harvesting the light of our star, drilling into the asteroids that could one day give birth to a new black hole.

Better still, kill off all the life on the planets, drain them of atmosphere, and hurl them into the Sun. They might just cause it to become unstable and go nova, or something. We could gather whole worlds through the Pandora Gates, and transform our star into a blackhole, and help the galaxy along on its slow drive into perfect entropy! Our nihilism could know no bounds!

You must all listen and bow down to my beliefs and my ethics because I will say nasty things about you and make you feel bad unless you do! My aesthetics matter more than all things in the universe and I am willing to use violence to enforce it! I'm clearly important, my ego is all that matters!

Oh, he'd lie 'till he's blue for a plant ribosome
He'll rob and he'll lie to save a man-eater's home
He's a savior to every species 'cept his own
'Cause he's a mental environmentalist!




[@-rep +1, f-rep +2]

Simon Kerimov Simon Kerimov's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Simon ei7


SlandeRobot wrote:
Reading signal.
Ego ID identi-
Error. Ego ID not found in messa-
Ego ID found: Moonbat Q. Environut

You must all listen and bow down to my beliefs and my ethics because I will say nasty things about you and make you feel bad unless you do! My aesthetics matter more than all things in the universe and I am willing to use violence to enforce it! I'm clearly important, my ego is all that matters!

Oh, he'd lie 'till he's blue for a plant ribosome
He'll rob and he'll lie to save a man-eater's home
He's a savior to every species 'cept his own
'Cause he's a mental environmentalist!

"Ah, good try SlandeRobot, but he doesn't listen. His muse got wiped a few months ago, and he's been royally furious ever since. Anyway, you should know that someone in the eN gang already took out a revenge bond against you and your maker. I'm sorry about it, really, but it's standard protocol from on high. Best of luck to you."



[g-rep | c-rep | r-rep | f-rep]




bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

I'm not sure if I should even comment on that. One would think that spam-filters in 10AF would be some top notch shit. Guess not.

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

[Identity: Moonbat Q. Environut]

If they were, your transmissions would never get through to pollute the infowaves. Self-loathing egomaniacs are just as annoying as the local body bank asking me if my reproductive organs are large enough.




[@-rep +1, f-rep +2]

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
the local body bank asking me if my reproductive organs are large enough.

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


Never hurts to check.




I want that planet back

WhatThePhysics WhatThePhysics's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

[The contents of this post have been removed by their author.]

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

It's not about the astronomical definition of planet. We just use the general term 'planet' because they more often host lifeforms or potential lifeforms. If an asteroid had an ecosystem, I would protect it as fervently as I protect Europa nowadays.

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WhatThePhysics WhatThePhysics's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

bakho wrote:
It's not about the astronomical definition of planet. We just use the general term 'planet' because they more often host lifeforms or potential lifeforms. If an asteroid had an ecosystem, I would protect it as fervently as I protect Europa nowadays.

Venus lost its chance to produce a natural ecosystem, and so did Mars. Mars might've been able to redevelop life in the next few million years if we left it alone, but there's also the chance it wouldn't have. Europa's natural life is pretty limited as it is, and any possible changes to it or Jupiter's orbit in the future could even lead to the moon's destruction, not necessarily the formation of a more complex biosphere. Titan's like Europa, minus the presence of natural lifeforms in the present day.

Exoplanets can be in similar situations as the above worlds. The existence or potential for (complex) life does not bring with it any objective, ideological mandate to sustain their preservation. All stars eventually go nova, or bring upon their satellite worlds conditions that would make them uninhabitable to life as we know it. Why should we allow these resources to progress along their currently-defined paths of destruction, when we could utilize the value they presently or potentially possess?

You're just letting them go to waste, because you're a carrier of the "we're a species guilty of sin" meme, and don't want another singularity to happen. I hope you realize that the Dysonian-Preservationist fantasy you're proposing does not prevent that sort of scenario from occurring.

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

WhatThePhysics wrote:
Venus lost its chance to produce a natural ecosystem, and so did Mars. Mars might've been able to redevelop life in the next few million years if we left it alone, but there's also the chance it wouldn't have. Europa's natural life is pretty limited as it is, and any possible changes to it or Jupiter's orbit in the future could even lead to the moon's destruction, not necessarily the formation of a more complex biosphere. Titan's like Europa, minus the presence of natural lifeforms in the present day.

One would think that specist perspectives would die off with the advent of transhumanism, but it seems to me that we're still more humanist than anything else. And I don't mean it in a good way. By definition, you assign more value to some ecosystems or lifeforms - as in, we can lose the primitive ones because they anyways don't stand a chance of intelligence or a of a level of complexity that you would find a satisfactory criteria for survival.

And - Mars has life. Just not the type you would consider saving. Which is a case in point.

WhatThePhysics wrote:
Exoplanets can be in similar situations as the above worlds. The existence or potential for (complex) life does not bring with it any objective, ideological mandate to sustain their preservation. All stars eventually go nova, or bring upon their satellite worlds conditions that would make them uninhabitable to life as we know it. Why should we allow these resources to progress along their currently-defined paths of destruction, when we could utilize the value they presently or potentially possess?

Just switch your word resource for profit, and we're on the right track. And again, we're still ready to gorge on everything in our way just in the name of sacred progress. And then you call me a meme ridden freak? What is progress? Another development of TITANs? Another loss of billion lives? Another planet destroyed, with billions and billions of creatures dying without ever taking part in anything that led to their death. If you want to talk about innocence lost, don't talk to me about transhumanity.

WhatThePhysics wrote:
You're just letting them go to waste, because you're a carrier of the "we're a species guilty of sin" meme, and don't want another singularity to happen. I hope you realize that the Dysonian-Preservationist fantasy you're proposing does not prevent that sort of scenario from occurring.

The problem isn't that we're guilty of sin, but that we're capable of it and still going in that direction. And, again, you're making the transhuman future the centerpiece object of any philosophy or ideology or meme or whatever you call it. I'm not talking about transhumans here, primarily. I'm talking about everybody else.

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WhatThePhysics WhatThePhysics's picture
Re: Odoist Preservationist Cookbook [EcoWave Archive]

bakho wrote:
One would think that specist perspectives would die off with the advent of transhumanism, but it seems to me that we're still more humanist than anything else. And I don't mean it in a good way. By definition, you assign more value to some ecosystems or lifeforms - as in, we can lose the primitive ones because they anyways don't stand a chance of intelligence or a of a level of complexity that you would find a satisfactory criteria for survival.

And - Mars has life. Just not the type you would consider saving. Which is a case in point.

I don't assign intrinsic value to anything. I give value to that with I can utilize to my own ends, whatever those ends may be. Personally, I would rather prefer a world with a more complex biosphere, because it lessens the demands for life support systems. Say we find some self-aware species out there on an exoplanet, one that would eventually develop a technological civilization if left alone. Does that mean we should leave them be? Hell no. I don't see any reasons for self-limitation, unless that limitation would prevent the potential for self-harm or self-destruction.

Doesn't matter to me what the level of complexity a biosphere possesses. Doesn't matter if a world even has a biosphere, or is completely sterile. If it's beneficial to use something, I'm inclined to use it.

bakho wrote:
Just switch your word resource for profit, and we're on the right track. And again, we're still ready to gorge on everything in our way just in the name of sacred progress. And then you call me a meme ridden freak? What is progress? Another development of TITANs? Another loss of billion lives? Another planet destroyed, with billions and billions of creatures dying without ever taking part in anything that led to their death. If you want to talk about innocence lost, don't talk to me about transhumanity.

I'm not even sure if this is a legitimate reply, so I'll try my best to answer to it. Everything decays, thanks to thermodynamics, correct? Yet, we still drink in sunlight, burn hydrogen, churn together countless products in cornucopia machines, and build more habitats and morphs throughout the universe. Why? Because life is a force that attempts to defy entropy at every turn. All worlds, if left alone, will come undone. What difference does it make whether or not we colonize and exploit them? They will be destroyed anyway, so let's use them while they're still around.

We are star stuff exploiting other star stuff to continue our own existence. There is no objective reason to not use a planet, irrespective of whether or not it is, isn't, will be, and/or won't be inhabited by indigenous lifeforms.

bakho wrote:
The problem isn't that we're guilty of sin, but that we're capable of it and still going in that direction. And, again, you're making the transhuman future the centerpiece object of any philosophy or ideology or meme or whatever you call it. I'm not talking about transhumans here, primarily. I'm talking about everybody else.

Let them do whatever they want. Who are you to tell them not to pursue their own self-destruction? If they off themselves because of their lack of foresight, good riddance to them. They'll just leave behind more space and resources for the rest of us. Morality is nothing more than a memeplex that's designed to regulate the affairs of its carriers, with the end goal of ensuring their survival long enough to transmit that meme to other sapients.

If you're proposing we leave pristine ecosystems alone, then I say you leave the psychic ecosystem of our civilization alone. Let them kill one another, and let the Big Electron sort them out.