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Massive Complaint about production quality...

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PhantomBlack PhantomBlack's picture
Massive Complaint about production quality...
Hey guys at CatLab! My physical copy of EP shipped in today. And i'm quite "not amused" about the condition in which it came. The overall binding and cover&spine is ok, but it's inacceptable that you folks ship out books that have about 20-26 pages of the book that have not been separated properly at the top edges of those pages, read: I had to use a hobby knife/ruler to manually separate them from each other. The setting is great, but shipping out books that underwent such sloppy (Sorry, but 20-26 pages that didn't get cut apart propperly at binding IS amateurish) "quality control" is not sufficient at all. No, i won't refund it at my retailer, i paid full price forefront in money order correct, so i expect to get a correct physical copy of your book, not a bunch of pages i have to assemble by myself. I was thinking about getting more line products, but after having experienced such a product to be ashamed of (ONLY production-values-wise!), i'm doubting wether i should support the game at all. Yeah, it may seem like exaggerrating, but i'm pissed of paying for and getting a new book that looks like it's third-hand use just because your printer doesn't seem to know his job at all. Sorry for the rant.
Cardul Cardul's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
That does sound bad...Of course, I have seen the same thing from Wizards of the Coast, Paizo, White Wolf, and Palladium. Heck, my copy of the D&D 4th Ed DMG, I spend like an hour separating *ALL* the pages. And they have their own in-house printer. Unfortunately, CGL uses contract printing houses, and the quality control there is where this should be getting caught, since CGL really cannot go through every book in a couple thousand books. In fact, it seems that what likely happened was you got one bad book out of thousands.
PhantomBlack PhantomBlack's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
Uhm, then CGL should truly think about getting another printer, i'd say.
Tiempo Tiempo's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
PhantomBlack wrote:
Uhm, then CGL should truly think about getting another printer, i'd say.
I don't see why... As far as we know there has been no more than a couple of problems with the hardcopy, in.. how much? 100 copies? 1000 copies? i don't know for sure, but definetly, in terms of problems,is almost perfect, and there is no flawless production of any product. The trick is to reuce them to a minimun, where the complaints are very low. I think you were only unlucky
PhantomBlack PhantomBlack's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
Yeah sure, that's why i know a German retailer that has an own category for EP secondware/faulty books... Anyways, it's been the first time in about... 10-12 years of buying RPG books from abroad that i got a faulty book. And yeah, i think the producer and the retailers should doublecheck on production errors. That's what the quality control department should be doing, right?
southheaven southheaven's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
I bought the book yesterday and had the same problem, pages that where not seperated properly. When i talked to the shop keeper about it, he told me, that there has been somebody else with the same problem so it doesn´t seem to be a problem of only a few. Also the upper and lower corner where not cut straight, but inclined. I can live with the low paper quality, but i think at least the cutting should be ok.
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
I'd encourage you guys to contact Catalyst Gamelabs directly through their web site. They should hear this, and I'm not sure they look at these forums very often. Sorry you had a bad experience.
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
Hi, all: First off, apologies to anyone who received a book that wasn't cut properly. Printing, cutting, and binding are all mechanical processes, and in any run of thousands of books there are going to be some that aren't perfect or aren't identical to other copies. Usually, over the course of distribution, these copies are identified and reported to us, and they end up destroyed, sold at a lower price, or shipped to us for our own internal use. It is prohibitively expensive to have every single copy checked for defects at the printer, in terms of additional cost and time taken. The cost of doing so would be directly passed onto customers of every single book. We do track the number of reported 'defective' copies and if that number is deemed excessive, we will talk about it to the companies we print with. The printer that produced Eclipse Phase is the same that has produced all of our full-color books to date, and they have been excellent at dealing with issues that we pass along to them. Let's take a quick look at the path these books take to get to you: * Books are printed. If the printer finds books that are obviously damaged or imperfect, they discard them or they pack them up distinctly for us to handle. * Books are shipped to our warehouse and primary distributors, and then onto secondary distributors. If any secondary distributors find a damaged book, they can elect to tell us about it and not pay for it. * Books are shipped to retailers. Almost all retailers see and physically handle each individual book, and if they find a damaged book, they too can return it to their distributor for exchange/credit. * Books are purchased by customers; who can elect to not buy them if they feel they are too badly damaged, or if they don't realize it at the time, can return it to the retailer. [Each retailer, of course, has their own policies about returns.] So, please, if you have received a damage copy, discuss it with the retailer you purchased it from. That is your remedy. I don't understand why you wouldn't be willing to do so. If you bought it directly from us via the BattleCorps store, please contact quartermaster@battlecorps.com to discuss shipping you a replacement copy. Just to hit a few other things that have been said in this thread: * Wizards of the Coast does not have their own in-house printer. * I'd love to hear the name/contact info of "a German retailer that has an own category for EP secondware/faulty books" -- we should be talking to them, or to the distributor that sold them so much faulty product. It's always possible that a distributor offered them a bunch of faulty books at extra discount, or something like that. Thanks for listening to my explanations, and again, sorry that you have received copies of Eclipse Phase that you don't feel are up to our quality standards: please seek a remedy from the place you purchased them from! cheers, Adam Media Design & Production Catalyst Game Labs
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
For what it is worth, my dead-tree copy had a minor page cutting glitch, too - two pages of the index had not been separated properly (though a moment with a razor blade fixed that nicely). I do not know what you "bad print run" figures are at, but you might want to consider talking with the company that printed the first run of books if they are higher than normal (what is normal for such a figure, anyway?)
southheaven southheaven's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
Thanks for your answer. >So, please, if you have received a damage copy, >discuss it with the retailer you purchased it from. >That is your remedy. I don't understand why you >wouldn't be willing to do so. I got my book a little cheaper since the retailer didn´t want to go thru the trouble of sending the book back. It´s not that the book is completly ruined nothing you can´t help with a sharp cutter.
PhantomBlack PhantomBlack's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
AdamJury wrote:
Hi, all: First off, apologies to anyone who received a book that wasn't cut properly. Printing, cutting, and binding are all mechanical processes, and in any run of thousands of books there are going to be some that aren't perfect or aren't identical to other copies. Usually, over the course of distribution, these copies are identified and reported to us, and they end up destroyed, sold at a lower price, or shipped to us for our own internal use. It is prohibitively expensive to have every single copy checked for defects at the printer, in terms of additional cost and time taken. The cost of doing so would be directly passed onto customers of every single book. We do track the number of reported 'defective' copies and if that number is deemed excessive, we will talk about it to the companies we print with. The printer that produced Eclipse Phase is the same that has produced all of our full-color books to date, and they have been excellent at dealing with issues that we pass along to them. Let's take a quick look at the path these books take to get to you: * Books are printed. If the printer finds books that are obviously damaged or imperfect, they discard them or they pack them up distinctly for us to handle. * Books are shipped to our warehouse and primary distributors, and then onto secondary distributors. If any secondary distributors find a damaged book, they can elect to tell us about it and not pay for it. * Books are shipped to retailers. Almost all retailers see and physically handle each individual book, and if they find a damaged book, they too can return it to their distributor for exchange/credit. * Books are purchased by customers; who can elect to not buy them if they feel they are too badly damaged, or if they don't realize it at the time, can return it to the retailer. [Each retailer, of course, has their own policies about returns.] So, please, if you have received a damage copy, discuss it with the retailer you purchased it from. That is your remedy. I don't understand why you wouldn't be willing to do so. If you bought it directly from us via the BattleCorps store, please contact quartermaster@battlecorps.com to discuss shipping you a replacement copy. Just to hit a few other things that have been said in this thread: * Wizards of the Coast does not have their own in-house printer. * I'd love to hear the name/contact info of "a German retailer that has an own category for EP secondware/faulty books" -- we should be talking to them, or to the distributor that sold them so much faulty product. It's always possible that a distributor offered them a bunch of faulty books at extra discount, or something like that. Thanks for listening to my explanations, and again, sorry that you have received copies of Eclipse Phase that you don't feel are up to our quality standards: please seek a remedy from the place you purchased them from! cheers, Adam Media Design & Production Catalyst Game Labs
Like i explained on Twitter, it's all fine now.
markerjones markerjones's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
Well for what it's worth, my dead tree copy was purchased online and shipped to my house, and I am completely satisfied with it. There wasnt a single problem with it at all, and its spent a good amount of time in my hands every day since it has arrived. So Im thinking those with bad books just got the rotten apples of the thousands in the patch.
"Thru the Darkness You Find the Light." -- Seraphim Shock
Thantrax Thantrax's picture
Re: Massive Complaint about production quality...
My book arrived with no problems and have receive high praise on the quality of it from my friends. I'm sorry about your luck with the bum copy! I have to admit, I was amazed at how thin it was for a 400 page book. I expected it to be thicker but was pleasantly surprised! It does make the pages curl a bit, but the light weight is nice.