A limit on enhancements/implants?

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jrsteensen jrsteensen's picture
A limit on enhancements/implants?

Is there anything that limits how many enhancements or implants, or (theoretically) could a sufficiently rich ego pack every enhancement into their morph, even though there has to be a certain point when they are replacing critical systems/structures (biological or synthetic) within their morph?

Kojak Kojak's picture
On page 200 of Transhuman,

On page 200 of Transhuman, there's an optional rule for exactly the sort of limits you're looking for. Short of using that rule, no, there are no upper limits.

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
One thing I really like about

One thing I really like about EP is that there's not any artificial limit on implants like in other games.

In general, you can keep adding implants and enhancements ad-infinitum just as long as you can logically fit it inside or outside the morph (for example, you could not change the skeleton twice and keep both bonuses, locally).

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Yea. I like that about EP too

Yea. I like that about EP too. The Essence system in Shadowrun, while it makes a certain kind of sense... was kinda of clunky. And also almost no games plays up the lost of humanity or lost of connection with nature the more cybered you get.

And for myself as well, EP isn't a universe that has trouble with miniaturization. If you look at the Swarmniod, they can have most mods just fine. Which suggest that mods can not only get small, but also can be disruptive across a body.

jrsteensen jrsteensen's picture
Hmm...perhaps, as you have

Hmm...perhaps, as you have more enhancements, you have to purchase more expensive miniturized enhancements to pack them all into your sleeve. Not quite sure about how to pick cutoffs and limits however. I am coming from a cyberpunk background where cyperpsychosis is a real threat, however.

boomzilla boomzilla's picture
genetic creeping featurism

I was discussing this with my GM earlier--my character is a doctor with a healing vat. So, with the appropriate blueprint, he could add whatever mod he wanted to.

But, as I've mentioned in other threads, I don't want to be overly munchkiny.

The bottlenecks on my particular character modding up the party ad-infinitum were thought to be:
1. access to the mod blueprints themselves (although it's debatable if this is much of a problem, considering open source is still a thing)
2. time for my doc character to actually do the install (the time in the healing vat is mostly automated, but, IIRC "Transhuman" also mentions several hours to do a genetic workup of the morph)
3. my doc character has other interests outside of just modding the party
4. probably most significant, genetic creeping featurism: that is (as I understand it), every time you install a biomod (and perhaps every nanomod as well), you modify the morph's genetic code. So think of it like a code base on a software program. Easy to do some tweaks/feature requests on a code base. It starts to get more challenging (potential bugs and conflicts are introduced) the more features you add to the program.


MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I recall somebody wrote up

I recall somebody wrote up some mod interaction rules, with an exponential increase in bugs for every aftermarket mod. They could be fixed over time, but it seemed like a great way to prevent instant implant monsters. It is even pretty realistic.

jrsteensen jrsteensen's picture
These last two are excellent.

These last two are excellent. Artificial limits come from material scarcity. I can't seem to find the mod interaction rules noted on the forums, but I'm likely just blind.

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
jrsteensen wrote:These last

jrsteensen wrote:
These last two are excellent. Artificial limits come from material scarcity. I can't seem to find the mod interaction rules noted on the forums, but I'm likely just blind.

I believe they were done by Anders Sanberg. http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Technological%20complexity.pdf

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I'd lost the link myself,

I'd lost the link myself, thankfully we've got people more on the ball! Those are indeed the rules. Looks like it is factorial rather than exponential growth, but close enough.

This is of course more work for the GM, maybe too much. And I wouldn't run it exactly as written. For one, you wouldn't be able to find all the bugs out of the field. Some things only show up at the worst time! Hopefully it would give medical/engineering characters something to play with.

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Devils Advocate 2.6.3 Loaded. Running...

Well... there's the practical effect that the more implants you pack into a single morph, the more you can lose to a single HEAP seeker.

Have you considered having mental effects arising from the use of Augmentations, distinct from implant-psychosis?
Look at Endocrine Control - characters with this can choose what emotions they experience.
A character who regularly uses this, especially if combined with Adrenal Boost or Emotional Dampers is going learn to see the world in a way fundamentally different from everyone else.
If you want to go this way, I wouldn't say you need a distinct ruleset as it's more a question of character development which you can model using Traits; for example, the aforesaid Endocrine-Control abuser may develop an Addiction to using them, but get a few extra ranks in Kinesthetics or Trauma Tolerance 1.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Pyrite Pyrite's picture
Another limitation is that a

Another limitation is that a number of implants may be regulated or illegal on certain habitats, and of course when you transfer to a new body because Firewall needs you on Titan all those implants you added on Mars won't do you much good.

'No language is justly studied merely as an aid to other purposes. It will in fact better serve other purposes, philological or historical, when it is studied for love, for itself.' --J.R.R. Tolkien

Redroverone Redroverone's picture
The biggest drawback they'll find in my games

....is that at some point, you'll have enough implants to essentially be considered exhuman. How's that going to work on Mars?

The dog ate my signature

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
For people with a lot of

For people with a lot of bioware sticking them with a fast metabolism trait might not be a bad idea, after all, where is all the power going to come from? Cyber and nanoware likely has some kind of limited lifetime when detached from the tech grid, and the batteries are going to be really hard to replace for some of them. Probably makes skinlink stronger though.

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
While that is a valid concern

While that is a valid concern, I would say its largely moot. Most games don't really concern themselves with eating. It may be something worth keeping in mind if the PCs get in a place where they cant readily eat. But that seems unlikely.

I would also argue as a player that I can opt out of my bio implants. Just put them in dormant mode, with an interface check.