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Hit Locations

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killj0y killj0y's picture
Hit Locations
I'm curious why a system this advanced doesn't use hit locations? The Durability system smacks of hitpoints but has all the equipment mechanically to operate similar to the wound system from deadlands. The only difference is that instead of 7 hit locations (Head, Guts, R. arm, L. arm, R. Leg, L. Leg) With 3 sub divisions (upper guts, lower guts, gizzard) you have a pool of durability (hitpoints). Without hit locations you have no called shots, no mechanical reasons to aim for critical components or to try for killing blows since most everything is going to come down to the 20-60 points of durability it takes to make you unconscious or the 30-90 points it takes to kill. One well placed headshot could seriously ruin the average bio-morph's day but I just don't see that being accurately represented in the mechanics. Your basic flat Dur 30, WT 6, no armor has essentially 45 points before he's dead. Your basic Heavy pistol full of hollowpoints is going to deal about 20 points of average DV. So anywhere between 2-3 shots before your target drops. An exceptional shot (60+ MoS grants +10 DV which puts your target unconscious after the first shot or if you rolled max damage about 1 point off of dead assuming no bonus damage from SOM. This here could be considered a headshot but isn't for intents and purposes beyond descriptive. So i'll stat it out. Hit Locations: d100 (for a standard humanoid morph) 00-20 Leg (~20%) 21-45 Lower Torso (~25%) 46-65 Arm (~20%) 66-95 Upper Torso (~30%) 96-99 Head (~5%) (odd or even determines right or left for arms/legs) Called shot Penalties: Hand Foot -20 Centermass -20 Head -40 Eyeball/Heart/Cortical Stack -60 Held Weapon -30 Headshot damage Grants an extra 1d10 damage. If you want to get really lethal about it you could reverse the system as it stands right now and take durability partially out of the equation. Say each location (Head, Torso, R. arm, L. arm, R. Leg, L. Leg) represents 5 wounds, and instead of subtracting your armor-modified DV from Durability you compare it to your WT. You then assign wounds based on location and wound penalties for damage based on number of wounds going from 0 to -50. Example: I am sleeved in a Flat morph, with no armor on, and am shot by a medium pistol (2d10+2). The shot succeeds and my attacker rolls location. He gets a 57, and hits me in the right arm. He then takes the average DV, for 13 points (low SOM). My WT is 6 which removes 2 of my 5 wounds to the right arm. I now have a -20 wound penalty for my next attempt to attack or dodge. Not entirely sure i'm making sense here but shout if you feel where i'm coming from.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hit Locations
The obvious reason is that Eclipse Phase uses a system based around simplicity, whereas a hit location system adds large levels of complexity. The system that exists already, to a degree, adds what is essentially a simplified injury system, a cross between the wound system of Shadowrun and the hit point system of D&D. It fits for what the developers were trying to create, which is an easy-access, fluid game.
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nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Hit Locations
SOM only adds damage to melee attacks. Also, don't forget the extra damage from a Critical Success.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Octomorph Octomorph's picture
Re: Hit Locations
I might go for the hit loc system from BRP. Pretty simple overall, but would need to think about it a bit.
killj0y killj0y's picture
Re: Hit Locations
i'm having trouble finding where it adds damage from a critical. The combat system says a critical allows you to ignore armor not add damage. Can you point me to a page/ paragraph?
killj0y killj0y's picture
Re: Hit Locations
I despise hit points as a mechanic. Durability at least doesn't vary depending on your level and has something remotely real to link it to in the toughness of your morph. I like straight wound systems, it's a thing of mine that gives everyone an even chance of suffering spontaneous brain ejection.
Octomorph Octomorph's picture
Re: Hit Locations
killj0y wrote:
i'm having trouble finding where it adds damage from a critical. The combat system says a critical allows you to ignore armor not add damage. Can you point me to a page/ paragraph?
can't give you the exact pageref, but a higher MOS (+20/+30) gives you additional damage.
killj0y killj0y's picture
Re: Hit Locations
I got that part, it's +30 gives you +5 dv and +60 gives you +10 dv but that's not the same as a critical.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hit Locations
killj0y wrote:
I got that part, it's +30 gives you +5 dv and +60 gives you +10 dv but that's not the same as a critical.
A critical allows you to ignore all armor. You essentially hit a hole in the armor, forcing your target to take the full brunt of the attack. If they are an armored target, this does increase damage. However, do not that you could theoretically score both an excellent and critical success, dealing bonus damage from the MoS and ignoring all armor... which would likely result in an absolutely devastating hit.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Tunips Tunips's picture
Re: Hit Locations
One of the things I love about EC is how gleefully violent I can be to my players, without having to roll up new characters. I use a bit of the Dark Heresy system for hit locations. Inverting the digits of the attack roll produces a hit location. Durability counts up for the whole body, but when a wound is suffered, the particular limb is blown off or horribly mangled. I don't do this mechanically, as my group is more than happy to roleplay horrific maiming.
killj0y killj0y's picture
Re: Hit Locations
I do enjoy a good maiming. I've just always had a problem with systems that allow for replacement limbs and whatnot but don't provide a good system for shooting them off again.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hit Locations
killj0y wrote:
I do enjoy a good maiming. I've just always had a problem with systems that allow for replacement limbs and whatnot but don't provide a good system for shooting them off again.
It's not too hard to use EP's system to come up with a functional injury system. For instance, I might recommend a "2 wound gauge". If something does enough damage to cause 2 wounds in one hit, you can say that a limb has been blown off, and from there use your favorite system to decide which limb. Furthermore, one of those wounds does not go away until the limb is replaced (or the stump heals over, I suppose), and the GM decides other effects that losing a limb causes. How does that sound? Might that suit your needs?
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
pobox522rlyeh pobox522rlyeh's picture
Re: Hit Locations
I personally am glad that the system was designed with simplicity in mind. I think I like the option of assuming two wounds equals an amputation (or something similar) isn't a bad idea though. It gives combat a somewhat more scary feel and adds a consequence to what happens. Of course, in a world where people can buy another body, it's a very fixable problem. Still, I like the imagery. It adds to the "horror" feel of the game.
"That which is not dead can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die..."
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hit Locations
pobox522rlyeh wrote:
I personally am glad that the system was designed with simplicity in mind. I think I like the option of assuming two wounds equals an amputation (or something similar) isn't a bad idea though. It gives combat a somewhat more scary feel and adds a consequence to what happens. Of course, in a world where people can buy another body, it's a very fixable problem. Still, I like the imagery. It adds to the "horror" feel of the game.
Remember that any body which has basic biomods is fully able to regrow limbs. The only ones that have any real risk of permanently losing limbs are flats. Even then, you can always get basic biomods.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Hit Locations
Decivre wrote:
pobox522rlyeh wrote:
I personally am glad that the system was designed with simplicity in mind. I think I like the option of assuming two wounds equals an amputation (or something similar) isn't a bad idea though. It gives combat a somewhat more scary feel and adds a consequence to what happens. Of course, in a world where people can buy another body, it's a very fixable problem. Still, I like the imagery. It adds to the "horror" feel of the game.
Remember that any body which has basic biomods is fully able to regrow limbs. The only ones that have any real risk of permanently losing limbs are flats. Even then, you can always get basic biomods.
Even temporarily losing limbs is pretty nasty, though, if you lose a limb in the middle of a time-critical mission, and your arm getting blown off prevents you from properly wielding your assault rifle.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hit Locations
nick012000 wrote:
Even temporarily losing limbs is pretty nasty, though, if you lose a limb in the middle of a time-critical mission, and your arm getting blown off prevents you from properly wielding your assault rifle.
Definitely. Limb loss is a major short-term problem. I was just making note that purchasing a new body isn't necessary when you can regrow limbs... and that most people can.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]