Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

64 posts / 0 new
Last post
Friend Computer Friend Computer's picture
don't poke the hornet's nest
One reason to leave the Earth undisturbed is the war nanoswams. They learn. If transhumanity were to traipse back on down the gravity well and restart the war, the distributed swarms would be faced with new stimuli from which to learn. They are very clever. If they were presented with a strong enough opponent, it is possible that they could manifest a TITAN level intelligence in response. It seems unlikely that this new TITAN would exit stage left like it's makers, or even that it could. If those swarms were fully awake, they could begin dismantling the planet into computronium. My calculations give about three terrestrial months from an Emergence event until our precarious existence would be extinguished.
[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/titan_userbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/pro_userbar.jpg[/img] The Computer wants you to be happy. Happiness is mandatory. Failure to be happy is treason. Treason is punishable by death.
rfmcdonald rfmcdonald's picture
Earth was home. Then home
Earth was home. Then home became completely unlivable and a menace, so we left. Things haven't changed. The people who suggest that Earth could provide a home for tens of millions of infugees and others on account of its natural bounty are clearly unaware of the fact that the Earth is a barely inhabited wasteland devastated not only by the Fall but by centuries of human environmental degradation. TITANs and exhumans are the most notable inhabitants. The Earth as lebensraum? Laugh. More to the point, current overpopulation is relative to currently existing social and economic structures. The general success of the different resleeving programs of the Autonomist Alliance's different members indicates that there are so many infugees and people in dead storage not because of absolute resource shortages but because of specific choices made by different polities. My Titan was able to handle a population explosion over the past decade, multiplying its population almost thirtyfold to sixty million, because it was run by a government that was committing to sleeving all the infugees. Titan, it should be noted, is a cryogenic outer-system moon. Why isn't fertile Mars capable of doing even better (Planetary Consortium, I'm looking at you).
Libertad Libertad's picture
It would be ideal if Earth
It would be ideal if Earth got reclaimed, but as it stands this is simply not practical in the near (or far) future. The Reclaimer Movement has its heart in the right place, but the extreme amount of resources and loss of life inevitable in the procedure will outweigh any good to come of it. Additionally, its location within the Inner System means that the Planetary Consortium and Hypercapitalist groups would have it as a strategic location. Not to mention all the politicking which would occur among Old Earth Nation-State refugees over who gets what land. A majority of refugees, to this day, live as infomorph slaves under the PC, meaning that the majority of them will never set foot on their ancestral homeworld except at the behest of their overseers. I for one do not wish to see these sham democracies controlling our homeworld. Before we can think of reclaiming Earth, the Consortium must be marginalized in Inner System dominance.
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65pmc5Pvh1r0iehwo6_r1_400.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/Erdrick/anarc_userbar.jpg[/img] "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." ~George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
beej beej's picture
[To: FreeRangeDarkcast]
[To: FreeRangeDarkcast] [From: Box-13] First off, Morningstar for LIFE! As an AGI I have to say I have mixed emotions about reclaiming Earth. On the first hand I've bought XPs of Earth. 'Cow tipping' seems like a very enjoyable sport and I would love to actually play it. On the second hand I fear that even if Earth is reclaimed the PC and the LLA would most likely block myself and my AGI brethren from setting foot on the planet. I mean the last time I was in the LLA people called me 'baby-titan' to my face before and after spitting on me. Why would they let me set foot on Earth? But then again on the third hand retaking Earth would allow all our Uplift brothers and sisters the chance to experience their homeworld. I don't know about you but I would love to see one of those Neo-Orca ballets in an actual ocean. Oh and dolphin brothels made of real coral! I went to one of those once (no real coral though). Boy did my programers not forsee that when they wrote my code. But on the fourth hand, it is swarming with Titan weapons. We barely survived and it has only been 10 years. I think we need time to build up our numbers and technology before even thinking about seriously discussing it. Personally I think we should focus more on terrforming Venus's upper atmosphere and the Martians with their terraforming jobs first. For two buddies on Mars, I'll never forget what you did for me in the White Zone. Get down with B, burn down Red Eden! Peace and Clean sleeving!
Wageslave Wageslave's picture
Wageslave casts RESURRECT!
[i]Wageslave casts RESURRECT! It is Highly Effective![/i] A lot of this discussion seems to revolve around the concept of recovery happening tomorrow, or in the next year or so. If one were careful and built up the proper safeguards/protections and started small, with either a peer-sourced or Extro-funded development I could easily see the capability to recover Terra in the next century with minimal risk to solar society-states. The larger concern that would need to be addressed before such a thing could move forward, however, is the political/economical/social status of Terra. Ad hoc formations attempting to do this will not only fail, but could potentially endanger the entirety of transhumanity. No, akin to the United Nations of ages past, there needs to be some sort of unified organization that all factions could agree would be an impartial arbiter of how to handle the 'Earth' conundrum. Of course, good luck getting that!
"Work is fun, when you want to do it!" --Jay Donohue
Villiana Villiana's picture
Reclaiming Earth
Why reclaim Earth? Hmph. We need to reclaim it, because it is ours. Every space in the Solar system needs to be occupied, and the nanoswarms down there constitute a threat. Who knows how long until they being killing us as well? Furthermore, we as transhumans were originally designed to live on Earth, and anyone who would give it up is denying the heritage of transhumanity, the place where all our progress and deeds began. Do we really want it destroyed, and let the heroes of the past be forgotten, our homeland gone forever? Our history began with Earth, and it is our fault that it is in this state. We need to fix what we screwed up: Earth. People say to go beyond the Gates instead, but the risks associated with them are too great right now. We are charging recklessly ahead with the technology we discover, when we should be taking a cautious step forward instead. We should hold off exploration until we fully figure out the Gates, their dangers and how they work. We should work on recovery and restoration before we can think of expansion. Ten years since the Fall, and I daresay that transhumanity is not ready to go recklessly exploring into the great beyond, where at any time we could stumble upon the TITAN's once again, and unleash their wrath upon us. The threats on Earth we should take care of first, we cannot face the TITAN's if we cannot first face all the little horrors that they left behind. Furthermore, need I remind you who is pushing forward the expansion into exoplanets? The Hypercorps. Remember how the Fall happened? How we continued to rely on rampant capitalism and corporations with power beyond imagining, even as Earth suffered under the weight of transhumanity? How that same rampant capitalism led to war, to famine and suffering all across Earth? How that same capitalism, developed AI without any forethought or considering of the consequences of what they were doing? It was corporation money that funded the research and design of the AI's capable of singularity intelligence after all, funded all so that profit can be made, regardless of the consequences of actually using such technology! Caring only about the bottom line profit, is what got the TITAN's made in the first place and the wars to break out at all! When it could've all been prevented, if we had simply slowed down and thought about what we were doing! But no, the greed of capitalism blinded us all, and blinds us still, making us recklessly hurl ourselves into the void after the TITANs, just daring for them to kill us in response. Assuming the TITANs are the only things to fear out there- I mean explain all the dead alien civilizations we keep finding. Do you really believe that its all a coincidence? If we keep gatecrashing like this, we are going to eventually kick over another beehive- and transhumanity might not survive a second time. That is why we need to reclaim Earth. We need to reclaim it from the horrors infesting it, to prepare for the eventual second round with the TITANs. We need to give people a home again. We need to return to the place where we were born and raised- ten thousand years of history on Earth is not something to laugh off or forget. And we need to restore it, without capitalism, but with anarchy, with a society that won't oppress everyone who wasn't born into the right family of plutocrats, with a society where money does not matter more than life, a society that won't recklessly endanger itself with excess curiosity. A society where we can truly live again, but this time without any selfish uncaring capitalists screwing it up for everyone else. -Brevent Lastar, Anarchist, Precautionist, Reclaimer
Steel Accord Steel Accord's picture
I vote should, but it's not that high a priority on my personal list. I'm more concerned for the people locked in dead storage or being held captive by TITAN remnants than I am with the planet itself. Not to mention those embodied still down there. I understand some want to be, but not everyone does, but they can't leave without extreme risk. It's "natural beauty" is recovering just fine with us gone, showing mother nature is stronger than her most vocal supporters give her credit for, but I digress. We seem to be doing just fine, all things considered, out here in space, but re-taking Earth should be something we attempt on a large scale a couple centuries down the line.
Your passion is power. Focus it. Your body is a tool. Hone it. Transhummanity is a pantheon. Exalt it!
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
Primarily nostalgia, it's our
Primarily nostalgia, it's our home, it's where we were made to be, it's where a lot of us still have fond memories. More pragmatic reasons are that it's a large terraformed planet that can sustain our entire population if need be. Hell, the Fall drastically reduced our population, we likely wouldn't even cover the globe. Space is a concern out in, well, space, and the biggest obstacle keeping us from sleeving everyone isn't bodies (hell, folks change bodies on a regular basis sometimes), it's giving them all a place to live.
XenoDragoness XenoDragoness's picture
But it's not your home. Your
But it's not your home. Your lease expired. There are new tenants now.
[x-rep +3]
rfmcdonald rfmcdonald's picture
I'm a Titanian, and we have a
I'm a Titanian, and we have a strong off-Earth presence. We're not the Planetary Consortium, but we don't want to be. I'm reasonably sure this isn't a matter of certain microcorps dominating public opinion. We are already a decimated population. Concentrating on an Earth that is still very dangerous instead of spreading, with some speed and an amount of caution, across our galaxy could be a civilization-ending result.
atamajakki atamajakki's picture
Nostalgia Gets Us Nowhere
The Fall took our home from us. It's like blowing out a candle - poof! - and now Earth doesn't belong to transhumanity anymore. There's nothing down there, people. TITAN tech scrubbed the place pretty clean; the satellite data is everywhere on the mesh. Anything left has either been eaten by nanoswarms or is so horribly infected as to not be worth looking for. As for these rumors about survivors, they're just plain ludicrous. The Planetary Consortium's party line is that nobody is still kicking down there, and that's not a political stance, it's hard fact backed up by the best tech we have. There's no reason for the PC to lie about that; any transhumans left are potential citizens and potential customers, and we would have a vested interest in them! But they just aren't there. Any stacks left lying around are long since hopelessly corrupted or compromised. We all lost people. Most of us lost our homes; all of us lost the homes of our ancestors. But continuing to shed tears over what is lost is not what has allowed transhumanity to achieve immortality among the stars! We must keep pressing forward. Mars is our home now, and so are all the other planets and habs in this solar system (including you, Jovians and autonomists; we're all in this transhuman game together!) and a thousand thousand exoplanets not yet discovered. Painful reminiscing only serves to hold us back.
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
It's just a gravity well
The Earth you all remember died without backup And the things that live there now won't give it back without a fight that will destroy most of that you want so perhaps Earth isn't a viable issue for us now My sympathies lie with the numberless dead Those who were lost and those who only got out as egocasts into a solar system that they never wanted So lets give up on reclaiming a dead world and instead work to recover our dead from cold storage and then move on with our lives for now
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
Panoptic Panoptic's picture
An evacuee's perspective
I was on Earth for much of the Fall, only escaping in the last days. This was through the strength of others and blind chance, not my own abilities. Now? Transhumanity has far fewer numbers to wage war with. Some individuals have strengthened, if not all to the degree the Ultimates have done, but not nearly enough. No battle should be fought there without a great deal of preparation, but we have time. The entities on Earth are material and can thus be destroyed. Why retake Earth? To prove that we can. And because it is folly to leave enemies functioning at the heart of the solar system. Colonisation should be a distant afterthought.
On 'IC Talk': Seyit Karga, Ultimate [url=http://eclipsephase.com/comment/46317#comment-46317]Character Profile[/url]