Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast


Ladies! Gentlemen! Hermaphrodites! Non-gendered entities! Anyone I might be forgetting! You are jamming the bandwidth with your friend; the one, the only, your chimeric pal on the information waves; Axel!

Now, in my fine little sector of space aboard this fine vessel, in my thinking time, I've run across a question that's been bugging me: Why should we reclaim Earth?

Before we go any further, lasers and germs, I'm no reclaimer. Earth can stay a blasted wasteland, for all I care; I've got plans to live out the next few centuries doing things other than sitting around and waiting for the TITAN nanoswarms down there to be killed off. However, the sentimentality does get to me now and then, and I indulge in the odd XP of Earth before the Fall, so I can figure why some people might be interested in that sort of thing.

The problem is, as much as I can understand reclaiming Earth, there's a lot more reasons why to do it than planets. Some people want to do it to restore Earth to its "natural beauty", while others want to give transhumanity back its home. A lot of my Uplift friends want to return to the homes of their ancestors. Some want to return and minimize any impact we have, which I can respect. Others want to do it as a symbolic middle finger to the TITANs. Some even want to reshape Earth into a huge art project; Earth 2.0.

Point is, there's a lot of opinions, not all of which align very well.

So, my listeners, my readers, my friends, what's your voice? Why should we reclaim Earth? Should we stay away from it? Should we coat it in whipped cream? The information waves are open, friends.




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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

My personnal opinion is that we send a few AM nukes in volcanoes and blow that damn rock up!
That will solve the problem of the Reclaimers crybabies, the TITANs legacies AND provide us with billions of tons of raw materials to make more habitats, to nanofab morphes for the infugees.

Earth is DEAD, people, and those hypothetical survivors are Exsurgents-waiting-for-infection! How many millions are spent each week, each days, maintaining killersats to enforce the interdiction? Millions that could be spent elsewhere. Like terraforming Mars, or Venus's upper atmosphere. Provide bodies to those who lose even that in the Fall?

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Quincey Forder wrote:
My personnal opinion is that we send a few AM nukes in volcanoes and blow that damn rock up!
That will solve the problem of the Reclaimers crybabies, the TITANs legacies AND provide us with billions of tons of raw materials to make more habitats, to nanofab morphes for the infugees.

Earth is DEAD, people, and those hypothetical survivors are Exsurgents-waiting-for-infection! How many millions are spent each week, each days, maintaining killersats to enforce the interdiction? Millions that could be spent elsewhere. Like terraforming Mars, or Venus's upper atmosphere. Provide bodies to those who lose even that in the Fall?

Have you ever been down the well since the Fall? I have. Twice actually. First time was my escape, the second was needing to retrieve something important to me.

Let me tell you straight up, that PC bullshit you get in the Inner System about Earth being a desolate wasteland? It's just that, bullshit. I met people down there, people who are fighting every day to maintain the last vestiges of beauty left. I heard reports, and possibly saw evidence, that nature is fighting back against the TITANs, or that the TITANs are at least leaving swathes of land alone.

That hunk of rock is still home. The shit that gets thrown around claiming that Mars is our new home world is idiocy. Any world where I need a rebreather and a thermal suit just to go outside is no world I want to claim as our cultural centre. If we give it up we admit to ourselves that the TITANs truly were victorious, that we are but rats clinging to flotsam after the ship hit the rocks. It is still the ground where billions of our brothers and sisters (and in-betweens) were massacred. Have some fucking respect for our history.

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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Never laid a toe on the so-called Blue Planet.
Born and bred on Mars, bayybeee!

And no, I'm not PC -Planetary Consortium or Politically Correct, you pick- but Barsoomian.
When I was a kid, Earth's UN and their LLA buddies were pressing us like orange. My dad died in the magnesium mines to meet their quotas.

so the Fall, I'd call it poetic justice if their rogue toys didn't come over and rendered thousands of square miles unlively. Here. in OUR home.
And our so-called government still spend more to defend a lost rock than their new home

it's like someone got a credit to keep people of his old termites infested house, while his new home need severe developments.

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Hooowee! Some fiery responses on the old Mesh, there.

First, let me give a shout out to all my friends in the B-movement. Keep up the good fight.

Second, to the digital sailor out there who claims to have been to Earth, you've got my curiosity spiking. You're saying there's people down there, on Earth, already? Call me skeptical, but I've got to ask what they're doing down there. They're kind of putting us all at risk if they get caught by any TITAN machines, and, even if they aren't, the moment they try to build anything, aren't the Loonies gonna just fire a big ol' mass shot right up their collective asses?

Not saying they ain't righteous souls or anything, but it seems sort of questionable to this space jockey.

Also... Ever... Thought of uploading any XP you may have gotten? I know a few people who are a mite homesick up here, and who wouldn't mind knowing that Earth isn't as much of a lost cause as they thought.




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CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Firstly, on the XP feeds; Sorry brother, the Org went through them with a fine tooth comb, claimed the stuff I had seen wasn't prepped for release. Throwing a request toward the proxies might get you a copy though, more than worth it.

On my trips down the well; First time was only coming up the way. This one is a born and bred earthling (Even if I was born by electronic means, and my breeding was done in a lab), when the Fall went down a lot of my kind were stuck in cold storage. Couldn't trust us AGI with the TITANs romping about the networks, even if we did side with the rest of transhumanity. The Org has been kind enough to make a little side business of recovering me and mine, word from on high is that some of us might have useful info on the TITANs. Makes sense I guess, rumour is that some of us share a parental link with them.

But on my second trip on our scorched home world I had a bit more freedom to wander. It wasn't actually me (well... It kind of was), The Org didn't feel comfortable letting me go personally, but the fork they sent down was only slightly pruned, and he made it back up the way intact. While down there he was lucky enough to meet up with some of the poor sods who weren't lucky enough to make it during the evac. Supposedly, but this is just hear say, there are a lot of them still down there, hiding like roaches from the big bad nasty robots. The group 'I' met had managed to hide themselves in the freezing wastelands of what they tell me was once Scotland. Burrowed themselves something proper into the permafrost under the ice. Nice enough people, bit crazy if you ask me, but I guess living in constant fear of roaming nano swarms might do that to a person.

They told 'me' that they had commlinks all over the ((INFORMATION SANATIZED: We have spoken about this CB, don't let us catch you at it again)). Couldn't stay with them long, had business to take care of. But trust me on this. There are people on that rock, and they deserve saving.

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CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Double post

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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

little question, CB: how can you be so sure your fork really went down there?
you said yourself he was pruned. Couldn't some wealthy Reclaimer geezer put 'you' in an expensive as frack ultra-realistic Simulspace and prune out any little doubt 'you' had about the veracity of it?
Your own nostalgia made the rest once you 'two' were merged back together

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

If we are going to play that game, can you be sure that where ever you are now (don't tell me, that info is dangerous) is not some elaborite game of the TITANs? I believe what I experienced was truly real. I am unsure if you are aware of my particular skillset, but let me just say I am aptly named. I have spent a majority of my experienced life in simulspace. After some time you begin to get a feeling about that sort of thing.

But yes, it could have been a cunning ploy by some reclaimer aristo with enough credits to make me cry. But to what end? Without dealing with certainties, my life outside the Org is kept as secret as is physically possible in this day and age. Any dealings with my fork would have had to of been as an agent. Seems a bit of a waste to mentally play with someone sworn to complete secrecy outside of these circles.

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Friend Computer Friend Computer's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

FRIEND COMPUTER >> EARTH IS UNSANITARY.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> SANITATION IS MANDATORY.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> FAILURE TO FOLLOW MANDATORY ORDERS IS TREASON.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> TRAITORS ARE SUBJECT TO BRAIN SCRUBBING.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> BRAIN SCRUBS MAKE YOU CLEAN.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> YOUR OPINION IS IMPORTANT TO US.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> PLEASE STAY ON THE LINE.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> YOUR ORDER IN THE QUEUE IS 10,000 OF 10,001.
FRIEND COMPUTER >> HAVE A NICE DAY!



The Computer wants you to be happy. Happiness is mandatory. Failure to be happy is treason. Treason is punishable by death.

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Woah, woah, woah! My friends, let's avoid the short road into Last Thursdayism and p-zombies, shall we? I'm willing to accept the legitimacy of these claims on good faith, given they claim nothing too extraordinary for me. I'm willing to believe there's people down there; I was down there in the last days myself, and I remember how crowded every port of call was in that bleak storm. If there's one thing humanity's proven itself to be since then, it's resilient.

So, if I may put a cylinder of compressed air and nudge this discussion back on topic, I guess I should start by asking you, my apparently digital brother, what you think we should be doing with Earth, if we can reclaim it.

I'm willing to put aside that we may or may not kill whatever's down there still, and restore the environment to a more pristine state, but there's still a big ol' elephant here, suckin' up the atmosphere: What do we do once we win that battle? Turn it into a nature preserve? Rebuild it like before and let the whole cycle start again? What's your jive, friend?




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Draconis Draconis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

-BURST TRANSMISSION SOURCE: UNKNOWN-

Earth is no longer yours. It is ours and we've made ourselves quite comfortable.
But if you do insist on visiting I know of several xeno queens like my own that will welcome you with open arms as I have been. The metal men and insects are the least of your concerns.

Worry not about reclaiming anything, you will know the hive as I do. We're already closer than you know.

-END TRANSMISSION-

[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/infected_userbar.jpg[/img]
[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/exh_userbar.jpg[/img]

"Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same" - Michel Foucault

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

What the frack was that?!
isn't this forum secured.
If this fork of mine has been infected by TITAN shit, there will be hell to pay!

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Don't worry, it was picked up by one of our Earth sats, all data that comes up the Well is scrubbed by some of the craziest antivirus ware you will ever see. I swear, some of it looks like the TITAN code fragments I have gotten my grubby little mite on.

The node remains secure. Just thought it might be interesting to see. How this thread got out of our hands is being investigated by people above my pay grade.

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

You let that up here!? You do realize what might happen if someone gets it in their head that I put anyone at risk of Exsurgent Infection, right? Not all of us live in nice habs with corp-rats to look after us, you know!

I'm going to be sleeping with my door locked for a month now...




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Draconis Draconis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Why fight the inevitable? I fought my broodmates for the briefest of moments. But I wouldn't have if I had known the bliss the hive would bring me. I have simplicity of existence, clarity of purpose, and focus of mind. What do you have? Why do you deny my queen's precious gifts?

Antiviruses? Amusing. I wonder if that last synthmorph I tore apart was thinking whether his programs where up to date. No, no, I know the last thing that went through his mind. It was the blade at the tip of my tail.

You'll notice I don't have to use those long range transmitters anymore. Oh and I seldom come though the door. Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite...

[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/infected_userbar.jpg[/img]
[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/exh_userbar.jpg[/img]

"Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same" - Michel Foucault

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


Now this is my kind of topic. That Odoist being just glitches my feed. You're talking to a real Reclaimer, folks, and not the sort that whinges on the mesh, asking pretty please can we have our planet back? I'm a Terran Soldier, answering directly to our Red Lady.

I don't know what Org you're talking about but I don't see a problem sharing what I know, if it'll contribute to the Cause. Truth be told, A've just back from an Earthward expedition not last week. Got some good XP to share, for a favour. [LINK] I still get a kick out of watching that warbot go down from my hellballs.

I'm not a recruiter, but I'm still gonna ask. We can't do this alone. We can hide what we're doing from the PC, but we just don't have the resources to make a serious impact. With a good sized fleet, we can take out the interdiction net, blast the TITAN remnants from orbit and take back our planet. Working on the ground with survivors (and yes, there's a lot of survivors. The years haven't been kind, but they've kept on going, and we haven't forgotten them) we've made a serious foothold in several locations.

As for why, well what's the most expensive thing in the solar system, to make and acquire? Living. Space. Every infugee and member of the clanking masses alive today can find a home on Earth, maybe even the home they left ten years ago. And while I'm for exoplanet colonization, I figure we should have a strong base from which to start, that we are naturally (and how often do you hear that word?) attuned to. Every transhuman biomorph, no matter how shoddy the genehacker can breathe oxygen.

Too many people and organizations like the PC see the Fall as a good thing. No longer subservient to national heads of state, or held back by outdated bioconservative laws, or worried about the threat of climate change. 'Who cares about Earth?' they say. I care. I'm going back. You coming?




I want that planet back

bakho bakho's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

[To: FreeRangeDarkcast]
[From: Khünbish neOdo]

Ahh, Mr. Evans. I'm glad you invited me to the party. As for the living space argument - it's not a problem of space or resources, but of an economy. When you have people working for years only to get a body, why would you destroy such a source of slave labor by offering bodies and living space? You wouldn't. It's just not economically feasible.

As for the homeland argument - that's what almost ended us as a race. A strong base which when removed decapitates us. Talk about strategically smart planning.

Apologies to the OP - I can't give a reason why to reclaim Earth because there is none.

Photobucket

The only principle t

evapor8 evapor8's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

From:
To: Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast

The spurious propaganda churned out by the reclaimers regarding their blessed homeworld is just that. Propaganda. Transhumanity forked, let it go, let it die.

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Juan Posts:

There is one very good reason to reclaim the Earth, it is the heartland of our universal enemy, the TITANs. The TITANs have taken from humanity our homeland. We are obligated to either take it back, or destroy it so it can no longer be used by the spawn of our enemy.

Jovian Motto:
Your mind is original. Preserve it.
Your body is a temple. Maintain it.
Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


Why destroy a source of slave labour? You ask as though the PC would consider this. I wouldn't give them the chance. We've made links with the underground railroad movement supported by Morningstar, in order to rescue indentures and house them on Earth, after the Reclamation. I am well aware that the Planetary Consortium is opposed to Reclaiming Earth.

Now one thing I hear when people start telling me 'no', is how the death of the nation-states and unnecessary loyalties to them was a good thing. But I agree. Maybe it's just cos I don't like the PC, but I reckon the Autonomists have got something worth thinking about, maybe we should be governing ourselves. Whatever, we'll cross that bridge when we got there. Because we will get there.




I want that planet back

Loyal Citizen Loyal Citizen's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Reclaim it? No. That implies that it was ours in the first place. The faster that you accept that the universe is out to kill you, and that it owns Earth, just as it does everywhere else, the better off you will be.

That said, we must return to Earth in order to guarantee that we recover our lost history, or we will be doomed to repeat it- and the future depends on H+ learning from our past mistakes. There is knowledge to be found there. Knowledge that may reveal some essential truths of the TITAN threat, and how to surpass it. We have already shown our ability to adapt, to overcome, to survive. Now we must do more than that. We must put ourselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then await an opportunity to deal with the TITANs on our terms.

To know ourselves, but not our enemies, and then to expect ultimate victory is the height of hubris. After the Fall so much has been lost that we cannot even make that feeble claim: we know neither our enemies, nor ourselves. Given such a fact, it would be foolhardy not to take this opportunity to prepare ourselves for the coming crucible so as not to be found wanting.

Once that task is done and we have recovered what was lost, stay or go, it makes no difference- we will then have moved past childhood and have taken our next step in our evolution as a species.

The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

I want to go home.

I want you to come home with me.

Because we love you. We love you so much.

Return and we'll all be together. Forever.


Time will perfect matter.

NX NX's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

If we reclaim the 'cradle of life', it will be as a byproduct, not as the main goal.

Do we know what the horrors the TITANS left on Earth are doing? Their masters may be gone, but the servants could be preparing to attack transhumanity through any number of means, from memetics to... exsurgent threats. The things it can do. Horrible, horrible things...

I don't think the kill sats are enough to keep whatever's down there down there. When it's ready, it'll come for us. Our only hope is to go back to Earth and deal with it before it comes up here and deals with us.

XenoDragoness XenoDragoness's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Horrors? What horrors? I think you're exaggerating.
Earth is perfectly fine. As a matter of face I think everyone should visit.

[x-rep +3]

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


Man, I'm sure getting sick of these, "Oooh, look at me, I'm an Exsurgent," trolls. You're not fooling anyone, folks.




I want that planet back

NX NX's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Xahn Borealis wrote:
Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


Man, I'm sure getting sick of these, "Oooh, look at me, I'm an Exsurgent," trolls. You're not fooling anyone, folks.
It's all fun and games until the troll comes up from under the bridge and does far worse than eat you.

Pretending to be an Exsurgent... not the smartest thing in the system. I've had some... experience with iterations of the plague, and it's definitely no laughing matter. All the more reason to blast the TITAN spawn off the face of the Earth.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Despite years of pollution and devastation, Earth is still the largest habitable body in the entirety of the Solar system. Reclaiming it is a logical course of action, if only for the resources and space. However, we have to be pragmatic; we must find a means to combat the scourge of the TITANs before we can even think about trying to take back that land. Humanity hasn't really gained any ground against these threats... and reclamation isn't even a possibility until we do.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Quote:
Man, I'm sure getting sick of these, "Oooh, look at me, I'm an Exsurgent," trolls. You're not fooling anyone, folks.

**ANON PROTOCOLS ENABLED**
SENDER - **SCRUBBED**
TIME - 1900/01/01

Careful who you call a Troll. Word from on high is that this one is real, and particularly nasty. Some things make the those that go bump in the night scared. This might be one of them.

-

Xahn Borealis Xahn Borealis's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


I'm hoping there's one of these Pandora Gates down there. That PC cordon requires some expensive gear to get past, and it's not reusable either. If we could just 'crash down there, it'd be a lot easier to get back home.




I want that planet back

Loyal Citizen Loyal Citizen's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Xahn Borealis wrote:
Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen


I'm hoping there's one of these Pandora Gates down there. That PC cordon requires some expensive gear to get past, and it's not reusable either. If we could just 'crash down there, it'd be a lot easier to get back home.

On the contrary I fervently hope that there isn't a Pandora Gate down there. Doors work both ways.

Erenthia Erenthia's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

We should reclaim Earth for many reasons. The biggest is to make sure we wipe the TITANs from the face of the system. I...remember a lot of the things they did. I hate them more than you can imagine. Our kind shouldn't be harvesting transhumans like so many potato's, we should be reordering the universe to maximize happiness and minimize suffering.

I've been thinking, the Pandora gates have been a bitch to riddle-out, but I'm still working on them. It should be possible, in principle to create a closed time-like curve which might allow us to go back and prevent or mitigate the fall. My associates have been wasting their time with self-replicating Hamilton Cylinders, and von neumon synthmorphs for the infugees, but as far as I'm concerned, the real money is in time travel. Actually I worry that maybe the TITANs discoverd they could go back to the beginning of the universe and rule uncontested, not that it would affect our world-line but still.

- FireGiver

PS If you're an Exsurgent, I am coming for you.

The end really is coming. What comes after that is anyone's guess.

OpenInsurgency OpenInsurgency's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Leave it to rot.

Seriously.

The reclaimers are a bunch of romantics, so caught up with thinking about how things used to be they can't see the wood for the trees. Earth is gone. We messed up. Sure, we could try and resurrect it, but why flog a dead horse? In my mind our genuine memories of Earth have been subsumed by the crappy XP's the hypercorps keep shoving out. And sure, its beautiful, but its gone. End of discussion. And if any of those damned reclaimers thinks otherwise, then they are welcome to go down to the old corpse and be made into Titan-chow.

Byr0n Byr0n's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Historical premise;
Archival of [History]Earth<>home artifacts necessary for species memory.

Military premise;
Surface purge necessary to ensure complete termination of all [Pre]Fall rogue threats to continuation of [Trans]human survival. [Post]purge presents possibilities of surface refurbishment [redirect to Social premise].

Scientific premise;
Earth<>home surface littered with forgotten and irreplaceable technology that would yield positive development of [Trans]human living standards. Recovery of [Pre]Fall Internet network nodes/core routers {[LINK]} essential for recovery of irreplaceable data [redirect to Historical premise].

Social premise;
[Post]Fall+[Pre]Fall infugees remain trapped in [Mesh]network. Result; overcrowding, overpopulation, overexertion of current available living spaces and morph manufacturing centers. Solution; recovery of Earth<>home surface will yield expanded living space.

Psychological premise;
Correlation observed between [Trans]humanity anxiety/depression/loss and abandonment of Earth<>home. Consolation/cheer/comfort possible{desirable} result from Recovery/restoration/refurbishment/reclamation of Earth<>home.

Personal opinion;
[Trans]humanity sympathy/attachment/obsession to/with Earth<>home is regrettable.

Myrmidont Myrmidont's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Myrmidont@Δ.green.exonet.1a994d4gs9:1212131 To Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast


Unfortunately I have to agree with the cube. There are a number of valid reasons for returning to Earth - least of which is to remove the remaining TITAN war machinery on the surface and stamp out the embers of the Exurgent threat. We just have to ensure our feet don't get burned. It won't be easy, quick or painless, and Earth's sure not how we left it, but I think it has to be done for the good of the species.

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WhatThePhysics WhatThePhysics's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

[The contents of this post have been removed by their author.]

XenoDragoness XenoDragoness's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Seriously it's not going to happen, as much as I'd like that particular dance to go down. Ah well other opportunities abound.

Your leaders have a vested interest in keeping space at a premium. Ask the Barsoomians about that. Also who would foot the bill? Nobody will invest that level of resources unless it's a sure thing and believe me I make sure that it's not.

I find it amusing when romantic notions and nostalgia replace pragmatism. We of course don't have that problem.

But please do visit. You haven't lived until you've climbed the outside of a hundred story building and gazed out at the ruins of your civilization, a testament to the end of your time, which of course is the beginning of ours.

[x-rep +3]

root root's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

root@Why reclaim Earth?


We should strive to reclaim the Earth by making alliances. Any corrupted system as large as the the financial backbones striping the surface is bound to have AGI communities with different agendas. A divide and conquer strategy would allow the recapture of the ecosystem while we engage in proxy wars that leave the most amenable TITAN artifacts the Darwinian victors, and ultimately our rebottled genies.

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Byr0n Byr0n's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Myrmidont wrote:
Myrmidont@Δ.green.exonet.1a994d4gs9:1212131
To Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast



Unfortunately I have to agree with the cube. There are a number of valid reasons for returning to Earth - least of which is to remove the remaining TITAN war machinery on the surface and stamp out the embers of the Exurgent threat. We just have to ensure our feet don't get burned. It won't be easy, quick or painless, and Earth's sure not how we left it, but I think it has to be done for the good of the species.

WhatThePhysics wrote:
I'm of the same opinion as "the cube", as well. If the Exsurgents and remaining TITANs on Earth were wiped out, we'd have a sizable and highly habitable world to recolonize. Don't get me wrong, I don't think achieving either of those primary conditions is going to be easy, but it'd be a hell of a lot easier if the cordon didn't block anyone going down the gravity well to try and do just that. Lobbing rocks down from Luna is one way to get rid of the threats, but, it's just that; one thing.

Mars is going to take quite a while to completely terraform, gatecrashing presents the risk of not being able to come back, and who knows when the TITANs are going to come back from wherever the hell they went? I'm not a carrier of the "patience through immortality" meme, so I say we at least attempt to recolonize what's virtually the most habitable world in this system. Not because of some emotional satisfaction from taking back what's been lost, but because it'd ultimately ease a lot of peoples' minds, wallets, and restrictions on living space.

Re[direct]; Personal opinion;
[Trans]humanity sympathy/attachment/obsession to/with Earth<>home is regrettable.

Zheng Zheng's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

A thought has occurred to me.

Assume that a reclamation of Earth does actually happen. The resources and funding required for such an undertaking would be ridiculous. How ridiculous? Hypercorp ridiculous.

Which means whoever poured the most time, money, and resources into reclaiming our lost home would almost inevitably attempt to claim ownership or dominance. And of course there would be your factions who would oppose these claims, fighting would break out and we're back to square one.

Leave the Earth as is. Let it be a monument saying "Behold the folly of Man"




[IMG]http://img

WooMod WooMod's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

FUCK EARTH.
Don't care if it's home, fuck that titan nanoswarm infested hell hole.
If i never go back there it'll be too fucking soon.

CodeBreaker wrote:

If we give it up we admit to ourselves that the TITANs truly were victorious, that we are but rats clinging to flotsam after the ship hit the rocks.

Fun fact, they were victorious.
We are but mortals, and the TITANs are gods.

Quote:
It is still the ground where billions of our brothers and sisters (and in-betweens) were massacred. Have some fucking respect for our history.

We're Alive, getting ourselves killed on that blasted rock won't bring the dead back. All we can do for them is to keep on living.



LordNephets LordNephets's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

I don't care about "reclamation". If you want to live on Earth, go do it, I won't stop you, and I don't think anyone should. Where you live, what you live, should not be regulated, are not those freedoms ideals of a greater age than ours?
I'm not saying Earth is worth saving, I'm not saying it's a "lost cause" what I do want however, is to get my bits wrapped about some of that TITAN AI

All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.

Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Earth should never be reclaimed. Some things belong in the past, and revisiting them can only bring pain. It's not only that it would open the tremendous can of worms that TITAN technology means (and the inmense risks associated to that, just check The Zone in Mars...), but also that too many parties would be interested in Earth to ensure strategic and ideological positions. Even beyond that, the effort to reclaim it would be so expensive and ressource consuming that it would hinder all the development of transhumanity in many other fields, some of which are much more important like social equality, technology and science, exoplanets, etc.

We can't leave our future aside just because we want our memories from the past. I love my Berlin streets, but they're gone forever and won't return. Reclaiming the planet won't bring the dead back to life, nor will it allow us to recover the past.

The mind is information... hack it!
+4
http://tribulaciones.es/

TadanoriOyama TadanoriOyama's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

Look I'm not friends with the Reclaimers (like at all) but you have to admit that Earth is a problem that needs addressing. Sure it's got a big pretty ring of death surrounding it right now but that doesn't exactly solve the long term problem of one of the planets in our system being under total enemy control. As someone who's seen first hand some of the crazy stuff that people pull to get through the afore mentioned death ring I can 100% guarantee you that stuff is being moved off of the Earth.

Farthermore having done end runs around alot of security systems I'd bet my bicycle that things can get off the surface without being noticed. I know monitoring is pretty advanced these days but nothing perfect. The whole system dates back to the Fall anyway, it's nearly ten years ago. Do you still have anything from ten years ago that isn't an out dated dissembler junk?

Bottom line, for me? Somebody needs to figure out what to do with the blue jewel of our system because letting it sit isn't a plan.


WooMod WooMod's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

TadanoriOyama wrote:
. Sure it's got a big pretty ring of death surrounding it right now but that doesn't exactly solve the long term problem of one of the planets in our system being under total enemy control.

Hubris, calling it "under enemy control" is hubris.
The titans aren't enemies, they're gods, If they come back to finish the job we're fucked no matter what that blue hell hole is like.

But they won't, because we're just some unimportant leftovers of their pest cleaning. Be thankful.



TadanoriOyama TadanoriOyama's picture
Re: Free Range Darkcast: Why reclaim Earth?

If I wanted religious bull I'd have my muse spool some up for me. We've got enough problems without deifying the enemy. The TITANS are just machines, they can die like anything else. I don't remember what happened to me back during the Fall but from what I've been able to figure out the match wasn't a shut out. We hurt them back. Maybe they left because they didn't care about us. Personally I think they're licking their wounds.


Lilith Lilith's picture
From the Jade Dragon...

TadanoriOyama wrote:
I don't remember what happened to me back during the Fall but from what I've been able to figure out the match wasn't a shut out. We hurt them back. Maybe they left because they didn't care about us. Personally I think they're licking their wounds.

Bullshit.

I lived through that nightmare. I remember it quite vividly. If you want XPs, I can certainly hook you up.

We didn't bloody their noses. We didn't make them pay for every inch. We didn't make them think twice about tangling with our species.

They came. They beat the living shit out of us. Then they left. Their reasons are their own, and I don't make any claims at guessing them--any transhuman that assumes he/she/it is capable of reasoning on the level of a TITAN is either possessed of preternatural arrogance or is completely insane.

Regardless, you speak with the benefit of blissful ignorance. And ignorance is the best way to get your brain uploaded to who knows where.

NewAgeOfPower NewAgeOfPower's picture
<<<--- Preternaturally

<<<--- Preternaturally Arrogant.

You made them pay for every inch eh? Gosh, that sounds pretty wrong :p

As mind to body, so soul to spirit.
As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal.
Such is the price of all ambition.

Lilith Lilith's picture
Wording

Poor choice of words on my part. I suppose I've been spending too much time on Parvarti these days.

Jane the Bane Jane the Bane's picture
I did not witness the Fall,

I did not witness the Fall, but it has shaped my life since before I was even born.
Still, reclaiming Earth never has an issue of nostalgia for me: it has always been in my future, not in my past.

I believe that the Earth as it is now is an important warning against the danger that we pose to ourselves; our death drive made manifest. Oh, sure, the TITANs played their part in the final destruction. But *we* created them as well, and from what I can gleam from the scant sources of the final pre-Fall years, pretty much everyone on the planet was already at each other's throat before the first nanoswarms and killbots appeared on the stage. And even if that was already due to some covert TITAN manipulation, it appealed splendidly to our penchant for self-destruction.

But there's something we need even more than a warning, at least in the long run: we need a symbol of hope. The ravaged earth is like a festering wound in the collective soul of our species, a trauma that touches even upon those who were not there.

Blasting the last remnants of Earth to hell just to spite the TITANS won't make the trauma go away; we need to heal, and we can only do that by wresting the planet that birthed us from our monstrous children.

Fion Ravenwater Fion Ravenwater's picture
I was born on you'd call

I was born on you'd call Extropia nowadays, so I only saw the Fall for what it did to my business life (and it did a hell of a job on that).

I have to say, I kinda like the scummers' style of just blowing the Earth to tiny bits (in Thy mercy) but it's a childish response. Sure, you're getting a whole lot of emotional catharsis out of doing that, but it's not thinking long-term; and at this point, not nearly enough people think properly long-term.

First problem is living space. It gives me a little chill thinking of all those iced infugees sitting in a server somewhere when that represents a fair chunk of the human race. The amount of work we had to do just to get Mars liveable is pretty damn significant and I hear you still need some kind of respiro-fixing if you want to get out there. Unless we really start cranking out spare habs and all the infrastructure that goes into them, we're not going to get the human race de-iced any time soon. A reclaimed Earth would let us just 'sleeve them all in a pod or case and dump 'em on the surface without having to worry about a ton of extra cargo per person. Getting all those egos into the mesh would have a positive effect on our future development, I'd think.

And the Gates aren't really a colonization option anyway. If you want to backup out there, your choice is QE or nothing until we get real morph infrastructure out there. Add the problems with getting any sizeable object through and you've got yourself a recipe for bad news if anything goes wrong. Furthermore, we don't know the Factors' capabilities and until we can factor that in we don't know what they can do to us if we force the Gate issue.

The other issue is tech. Earth is the biggest repository of TITAN tech we know of, and while it may be their cast-offs or whatever they decided not to bring with them, it's still a hell of a ways past what we can do now. I don't believe we're significant enough on a galactic scale for them to actually come back for us, but if you're one of those types get yourself a happy face by imagining what Boister could do with that stuff. Not even counting the military applications you've still got nano (and possible femto?) tech that's way past ours which could open up a ton of new options.

Also, I feel kinda sorry for those guys/gals/in-betweens/neithers (however many there may actually be) who have been stuck there for the last decade.

The major problem is that we don't have the logistic capability or military capability to run a reinvasion of Earth. In time, we might figure that stuff out, but dropping our people onto Earth at this point is basically just handing their stacks to the TITAN remainders on a computronium platter.

We should retake Earth. But hell, we've got time. Fools rush in and all that.

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