Eclipse Phase 2 Rules Discussion

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ubik2 ubik2's picture
Eclipse Phase 2 Rules Discussion

I noticed there were some places where I wasn't sure what was intended by the rules, and I'm curious how others have interpreted these.

In the Fray description on p. 48, it mentions the skill is halved for defense vs. Guns. It's not clear if the specialization bonus is applied to this first (in which case it is effectively +5) or if it is applied after. I assume other modifiers would apply after.
Edit: Based on the updated specialization text, I think it's just a modifier to the roll, and should apply after (the red box on page 203 indicates modifiers are applied after division).

In the Free Fall description on p. 49, it's clear that this skill is used instead of Athletics in microgravity. It's not clear what happens with the Pilot skills. We could use the same Pilot skill. This is probably appropriate for Pilot: Air (since microgravity isn't much different there). It might not be appropriate for Pilot: Ground without something like a magnetic system/grip pads. In that case, should Pilot: Space be used instead?

In the Aiming section on p. 206, it's clear that you can only use your quick action to aim when firing in single-shot or semi-auto mode. It's not entirely clear whether you can use a complex action to aim when firing in Burst Fire or Full Automatic mode, though I assume you cannot. In any case, the play example on p. 203 involves the quick action aim with burst fire, so there's at least a contradiction.
Edit: The 1.1 update removed the aim from the example.

In the Railguns section on p. 211, it mentions "Railguns are available in the same models as firearms (pistols through machine guns)." I take this statement to exclude the Polygun variants as well as the Sniper Rifle, but I'm not certain if that's intentional.
Edit: Based on the 1.1 update (which removed this text), Railguns no longer exclude Polygun and Sniper Rifle.

In the Bot/Vehicle ALI entry in the table on p. 327, the ALI gets the Pilot skill at 60. Since many Bots and Vehicles have multiple movement modes, it's possible they should also have secondary movement skills at 40, possibly also including specialization. Similarly, I assume those with biomimicked movement would have Athletics at 60 instead. Since ALIs can't default, they would be unable to operate in those relatively common situations without the skill.

In the Hardsuits section on page 351, it's stated that "Occupants can only wear armor with an Armor Value (either energy or kinetic) of 4 or less inside the hardsuit." I'm not sure if this is supposed to be based on the total (including armor additions like dermal armor), or just the flat armor, like the Crash Suit.

branford branford's picture
Can an async operate a

Can an async operate a Pandora Gate using the Grok Psi-Chi sleight without a Blue Box interface?

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
No. Grok simply says that you

No. Grok simply says that you know how to use it, but it doesn't necessarily provide the tools for doing so. If you want to rule that the Pandora Gates are reactive to psi phenomena, then you could go that route, but it's not RAW. You could maybe also use it without a Blue Box by finding other equivalent tools, but this is also something that might not work. A Blue Box is not optional according to the rules on Page 405.

branford branford's picture
Would an async who Groks a

Would an async who Groks a Pandora Gate learn the "truth" of what they are (assuming it's just not a stargate)?

Also, wouldn't an async with Grok and a Blue Box be able to do a helluva lot more with a gate than anyone else?

ubik2 ubik2's picture
branford wrote:Would an async

branford wrote:
Would an async who Groks a Pandora Gate learn the "truth" of what they are (assuming it's just not a stargate)?

No. You know how to work it, but not how it works. I think this is pretty well covered in the description on p. 281.

branford wrote:
Also, wouldn't an async with Grok and a Blue Box be able to do a helluva lot more with a gate than anyone else?

It's entirely possible you could do a lot more. This is really up to the campaign. The player probably shouldn't know exactly what they're doing. Just that hitting this sequence of symbols feels right, and then something happens. Ideally, this will be plot related, so if they need to escape, it takes them home, but if they're trying to catch an abducted fork, it takes them to the right place for that.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Is it out?

So, considering how recent this post is, is 2nd ed out yet? I haven't seen anything and I've been keeping an eye on this for a few days now.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
It went out to the

It went out to the Kickstarter backers. I'm not sure what the holdup is for the general release on channels like drivethrurpg. Adam mentioned it going out on Monday, but he tends to be a bit optimistic.

I imagine they're at GenCon, and there may be some intentional delay to get the print copies out at the same time (particularly if that's where they make most of their money).

Technically, due to the permissive license, anyone with the Kickstarter version could now share it freely (Sad!), but I've held off on doing that so the posthuman guys can capture the buyers from a paid release first (Excellent!).

Edit: Based on this thread, I don't think we'll see general access until after GenCon.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Interesting. I don't suppose

Interesting. I don't suppose anyone here wants to link a copy of the core? Don't get me wrong, I'll buy it immediately (hell, I bought the 1st Ed core twice), but I'm planning on running a game soon (with 10 players) and I want to be ahead of the curve.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
async share skill

I'm wondering if Pushing the psi sleight "implant skill" gets the x2 bonus. As it is it seems not terribly useful? Like, at chargen max skill is 80, implanting at half is 40 which is mediocre at best.

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
40 is still better than

40 is still better than nothing, and rules out the possibility of a double superior failure. And while you wouldn't want to regularly rely on a 40 skill for important things, it is still between a 1/3 and 1/2 chance of success.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I guess, but it seems

I guess, but it seems problematically niche for something that has an infection mod of 6 and likely a 3 hour duration. 40 is too low a skill to plan an op around, and if it's an in-the-moment thing... well, your async is right there, and can do it twice as well.

Hmm, I also interpreted it as including the async's aptitude as well. Leaving that out and only halving the spent points could raise the passed skill to 50 if the recipient had the same aptitude. Hard to tell what was intended - they talk about the skill caps with the aptitudes included.
Regardless, I'm still curious about how the Push rules are supposed to interact, if they do at all.

Zen Walrus Zen Walrus's picture
Sounds to me like it's

Sounds to me like it's supposed to give you whatever skill you need at a moment's notice. If you don't have a skill covered, or your specialist is unable to help/out of action 40 is nothing to scoff at.

Nefasine Nefasine's picture
skill checks vs skill tests?

Does anyone know if there is a distinction between using a skill and an attribute check?
I see traits such as Acumen "add +5 per level to your COG checks" and wonder does that effect skill usage.
If it does, then it is a lot cheaper then just increasing your COG naturally; so my feeling is its not for skills only attribute checks but wanted to confirm

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DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
In theory, skills reflect

In theory, skills reflect training while aptitudes are raw ability. Some examples of aptitude checks are on p. 37.

In practice, skill checks are what the number lists. If it says you got a skill rating of 70, then your target number is 70. Aptitude checks are the aptitude * 3. So if you had COG of 20, then the target number is 60. There are many things that can modify these numbers. Traits like Acumen raise your COG check by 5 per level. So if you had a COG of 20 with Acumen level 1, your target number would be 65.

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
As far as Implant Skill goes,

As far as Implant Skill goes, there are a few uses that I can see. First and foremost are cases where it is useful to have extra people capable of performing a given skill and where the penalty for failure is minimal. An example would be giving an otherwise non-combatant a Guns skill so they can help defend themselves. Yes a bodyguard can shoot anyone that comes near, but it helps if they can point and shoot too, no?

Secondly are cases where teamwork is useful. You'll notice 40 is the minimum to assist with more complicated tasks.

Third, complentary skills. Again, 40 is a minimum here to unlock this. If someone is using an active skill that would really benefit from a Knowledge skill you have, it may be more useful for them to have essentially a primer on it. The example given in the book of using cult knowledge to assist with persuasion is a prime example of a case where you can't just be off to the side teaching them as they work.

Lastly, there may be cases where your async may be needed elsewhere, but somebody still needs to do the task here. As with the first situation I stated, a requirement is that the penalty for failure not be dire (I'd rather not have a "doctor" with an implanted medicine skill perform surgery...), but this can essentially allow you to act in two places at once without needing to go through the trouble of making a fork and potentially needing to sleeve it as well.

Are they all niche uses? Absolutely, but that's psi in a nutshell.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
Teamwork bonus is a good

Teamwork bonus is a good point. That effectively turns the sleight into "+10 on your major skill roll" and pushes you up to ~90. If you use the sleight Push to affect a second person, you've got almost automatic success for 3 hours. That's actually pretty good, since getting the skill or aptitude points to fill in that last 20% isn't very easy. All the niche situations are gravy.

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:Does anyone know if

Quote:
Does anyone know if there is a distinction between using a skill and an attribute check?

Yeah, Attribute Checks are very explicitly noted as "COGx3" or "WILx3" style tests, not just "any test against a skill linked to an attribute." It's useful — SOM checks are used for brute strength, WIL checks are for stress, INT checks are what protects you from basilisk hacks and so on. But the wares that boost apt checks are, sadly, not a cheap way to boost a bunch of linked skills. ;-)
Grim G Grim G's picture
So... any idea when the rules

So... any idea when the rules are coming? It's supposed to be August 9th and I've been hitting refresh on Drivethru every now and again.

kindalas kindalas's picture
Grim G wrote:So... any idea

Grim G wrote:
So... any idea when the rules are coming? It's supposed to be August 9th and I've been hitting refresh on Drivethru every now and again.

They should be up on Drivethrough RPG now.

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Starkiller Starkiller's picture
Sorry wrong post

Sorry wrong post

tragicjones tragicjones's picture
The rules specify that no

The rules specify that no target for antest should be modified by more than +/- 60, but I'm not sure how to handle edge cases where the target would be reduced to 0.
Is there a minimum target for tests, after taking modifiers into account? Or would we treat the test as automatically failed?

icefyer0 icefyer0's picture
tragicjones wrote:The rules

tragicjones wrote:
The rules specify that no target for antest should be modified by more than +/- 60, but I'm not sure how to handle edge cases where the target would be reduced to 0.
Is there a minimum target for tests, after taking modifiers into account? Or would we treat the test as automatically failed?

I'm assuming that if after modifiers you'd roll 0 you either couldn't attempt it or if you did it'd just fail with a large degree of exceptional failure.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
A 00 always succeeds

A 00 always succeeds (critical), so if your GM allows you to roll, you do have some tiny chance at success. A GM would also be within his rights to simply say that you can't do it. Since you do have a 9% chance of critical failure, you may prefer to avoid attempting it.

Klaim Klaim's picture
About semi-automatic firing

About semi-automatic firing mode: is it really intended that the cost is a complex action? From the description it looks to me that it would make more sense as 1 shot per quick action? In particular compared to the other firing modes.

eaton eaton's picture
Semi auto vs Burst vs Full

Semi auto vs Burst vs Full auto is a trade-off between ammo, accuracy, and damage. All of them still take a single complex action, which honestly is a big improvement in consistency over EP1's "two semi-auto shots per complex action" rule.

The big distinction is Single Shot weapons, which can only be fired once per round of action. That means that using an extra vigor point won't get you a second shot with the Agonzer in Roast mode.

Klaim Klaim's picture
Ok so this is intentional,

Ok so this is intentional, thanks for the clarification. I now get the nuance.

eaton eaton's picture
I mean, I assume it's

I mean, I assume it's intentional. ;-) I still have a few gripes about the complexity of movement — the difference between base move, full move, and rushing, and how they correspond to free vs complex actions has me homebrewing a quick alternative — but in general the breakdown of actions in 2E feels way more straightforward and eliminating the "two SA shots with one complex action" rule is an improvement IMO. Just go Burst-For-Damage.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
I don't know if this is an

I don't know if this is an error, but on page 399, the Factor Ambassador has a Know: Sculpture 59. That's an unusual skill level.

Zen Walrus Zen Walrus's picture
Maybe it dropped out of grad

Maybe it dropped out of grad art school?

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
ubik2 wrote:I don't know if

ubik2 wrote:
I don't know if this is an error, but on page 399, the Factor Ambassador has a Know: Sculpture 59. That's an unusual skill level.

Unsual but possible: while skills go up in five points increments until a level of 60 is attained, the base level comes from an attribute, and those go up 1 by 1.
For example, a 59 can come from a base stat of 19, with 8 increments of 5 points each.

I think that, compared to first edition, the only way to "game" the system would be to start with basic attributes and ton of skills at 60, then level only attributes... and that only lets you skip practice time.

Interpretivechaos Interpretivechaos's picture
Quote:Next, add the base

Quote:
Next, add the base aptitude values to their linked skills. Note that the skills of Fray and Perceive have base values equal to their aptitude × 2.

I'm a little unclear how to calculate this. Base values doesn't seem to defined, and I'm not 100% sure whether the formula is aptitude*2+spent skill points, or aptitude*3+spent skill points. I'm assuming the intention is aptitude*2 based on the Rez points statement that each aptitude point increases perception and fray*2, but I thought I'd double check since it isn't entirely clear.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
On page 48, Skills and

On page 48, Skills and Aptitudes, there's the mention of each skill being increased by that aptitude's base value. I agree that the wording could be clearer, though (also in the Perceive and Fray descriptions). The intention is aptitude*2+spent skill points.

Edit: The example character creation on page 81 does make this concrete with the 40 skill points in Perceive combined with INT 10 for a skill of 60.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
Xagroth wrote:

Xagroth wrote:

I think that, compared to first edition, the only way to "game" the system would be to start with basic attributes and ton of skills at 60, then level only attributes... and that only lets you skip practice time.

The value of 59 is totally valid. It just looks like it may have been a typo instead.

To game the advancement time, you could spend 1 RP to get 5 skill points in week 1, then on week 2-6 you spend 1 RP to increase the attribute, and 1 skill points to increase the skill. This would let you increase your skill twice as fast (adding 10 points to your skill level in 6 weeks). Your GM may call shenanigans, and I don't think it's RAI, but it's valid RAW.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Poly>Sniper

I took a look at poly rifles compared to the weapons they can change into and found that their ability to become snipers makes actual sniper rifles obsolete. It's basically a sniper with two longarms free of charge.

This seems to me like an oversight and I think I'm going to house rule it that they turn into battle rifles instead. It makes sense too as all forms of a poly pistol are the same price. Hopefully this gets changed in a new printing.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I'm trying to decipher the

I'm trying to decipher the sample characters. I'm trying to figure out all the special symbols. Is there a guide anywhere that I may have missed?

I'll use the char '^' as the up symbol.

I think ^MP is for something bought morph points. ^GP is gear? Either from gear packs or bought with extra gear points. I'm guessing that the ^ when applied to pools, the left side is the normal amount of pool points and the right is the number of pool points after mods. I'm guessing the ^ when applied to skills, the left is for when no modifiers apply, and the right is for when sleights or other modifiers apply?

Also, where do they keep the muse skills? They get 2 know skills ranked at 40 to be assigned that can be assigned. I think they are worth knowing.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
I don't think there's any

I don't think there's any discussion of those symbols, but I think your description is correct. They indicate something that was purchased with morph points or gear points (or that provides extra morph or gear points). Similarly, boosted pools and skills are as you describe.

In the text listings (like NPCs), they usually have the boosted pool and skill values in parentheses instead.

I imagine the two know skills for the muse are supposed to be chosen by the player. For normal character creation, if your player is an artist, maybe their muse has a Know: Art History skill. For the sample characters, it's unlikely to come up, but if it does, I'd probably just let the player declare it the first time the skill is used (presuming it made sense). I assume you already have the page 327 reference for the other muse skills.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I'm a little bit annoyed that

I'm a little bit annoyed that protean swarms don't have a price. They just use the complexity of the item they'll make.

What am I supposed to do if I wanted to hack a swarm to build something else?

I also get the impression that they can only make 1 item before getting used up.

BlckKnght BlckKnght's picture
protean swarms

DivineWrath wrote:
I'm a little bit annoyed that protean swarms don't have a price. They just use the complexity of the item they'll make.

What am I supposed to do if I wanted to hack a swarm to build something else?

I also get the impression that they can only make 1 item before getting used up.

I think the blueprint of the item the swarm can build is built right into the nanoswarm's hardware when you make it. So rather than hacking the swarm, you need to hack a hive to make a different swarm with different low-level programming.

Buying a protean swarm is basically buying a single-use blueprint of the item, but it self-fabricates from materials in the environment rather than in a nanofabricator.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
In my efforts to make

In my efforts to make different characters, I ended up designing one that has modified a Dwarf robot (p. 349) to be a combat morph. The rules seem to allow it.

A Dwarf has 18/14 armor with 150 dur, while a Reaper has 12/10 armor with 60 dur. Overall, a combat Dwarf seems to out class a Reaper. Its also cheaper, starting at 3 gp and the Reaper is 12 mp. However, the Dwarf can't fly and is a large creature.

It needs a cyberbrain (3 gp) to make it a sleevable as other morphs. This can be covered by MP. It also needs a cordical stack (1 gp). These costs could be reduced by skipping a cyberbrain and try to jam it while being an infomorph in the mesh inserts. As for armor, you could add industrial armor to push the armor rating to 24/18 for a price of 1 gp.

PhishStyx PhishStyx's picture
Chameleon Cloak and Smart Clothes

Do the bonuses of Chameleon Cloaks and Smart Clothes stack?

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Do you have to acquire ammo?

Do you have to acquire ammo? The Firewall gear pack gives you a Firearm, but no ammo. In the weapon section, 100 units of standard ammo (p. 211) costs 1 gp.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
PhishStyx wrote:Do the

PhishStyx wrote:
Do the bonuses of Chameleon Cloaks and Smart Clothes stack?

I don't think so. I think you can only benefit from 1 layer of clothing, or in this case 1 layer of camouflage at a time.

BlckKnght BlckKnght's picture
ammo

DivineWrath wrote:
Do you have to acquire ammo? The Firewall gear pack gives you a Firearm, but no ammo. In the weapon section, 100 units of standard ammo (p. 211) costs 1 gp.

From reloading rules in the book:

p. 206 wrote:
Reloading aside, you are assumed to carry enough standard ammo or batteries that you will not run out. You should, however, keep track of smart and specialty ammo, seeker missiles, and larger ammunition. Likewise, in remote locations or situations where you are isolated from resources, the GM may have you track the ammo you use.

So I think the intention is that you don't need to spend GP on normal ammo in civilized parts of transhuman space, as the cost is too low to bother with (presumably this reflects the demise of the "trivial" cost category from 1e). But if you're in a situation where even small amounts of resources might be hard to come by (e.g. stranded on an alien planet or a distant asteroid or something) access to ammo might be come relevant, so the book gives a complexity for it, even if it's overpriced by a bit compared to places with established infrastructure.

A GM might say something like: "As the gate abruptly snaps closed in front of your staggering figures, the pained expression of the Pathfinder gate techs on the other side remains etched in your memories. Everybody, write down all the ammo you have on you, since you won't be picking up more in Pathfinder City any time soon. You can have up to five reloads of standard ammo for any weapon that uses bullets, and one spare standard battery for each energy weapon or railgun. If you can get access to the nanofabbers back in the wrecked colony, the complexities of each kind of ammo are in the book. Your guns' ALIs all carry blueprints for their own types of ammo."

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Moving discussion here:

Moving discussion here:

Eperogenay wrote:
That's why 1e muses had Academics Psychology at 60, which made way more sense. It's bothering me here. I thought initially it was an issue with the relevant text and not the fact that muse didn't have it on sheet. Now this 'fixed' part looks insane.

I mean, ok, combining it all to explain that Medicine: Psychosurgery is used to heal stress would be fine... (although I still think psychology makes more sense, but w/e let's get outside granularity, fine) if not for that 30 skill. Sure, extra time can boost it but isn't there a limit on how much, not the time but the max bonus for a 'roll'?

edit: This is getting so offtopic that I'm going to shut up about it, but it just feels wrong, especially if you're losing one Know (at 40) skill for mandatory skill (at 30). I'll probably homebrew it for my games.

I double checked. The limit to bonuses is +/- 60. A Muse with Medicine: Psychosurgery 30 can reach a target number of up to 90 with bonuses. You can take extra time to get you to the full +60, with each +10 requiring 25% more time than normal. So instead of taking 1 hour to do psychosurgery, it would take 2.5 hours to get that +60 bonus. Remember you can only do 1 hour of psychosurgery a day, so it would take you at least 3 days to pull off. You can do psychosurgery in accelerated time simulspaces.

Negative modifiers can happen, with the potential to cancel out the bonuses from taking extra time. Traumas and disorders have such side effects. Overall, psychosurgery has no negative side effects, and works far quicker than letting stress heal naturally.

The more I think about it, the more I think we need something in the middle for stress damage. Psychosurgery works great if your mind is digital or can become digital, but there is nothing for those who are determined to remain sleeved in meat bags. Or are somehow stuck in a biomorph.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
BlckKnght wrote:

BlckKnght wrote:

From reloading rules in the book:

p. 206 wrote:
Reloading aside, you are assumed to carry enough standard ammo or batteries that you will not run out. You should, however, keep track of smart and specialty ammo, seeker missiles, and larger ammunition. Likewise, in remote locations or situations where you are isolated from resources, the GM may have you track the ammo you use.

So I think the intention is that you don't need to spend GP on normal ammo in civilized parts of transhuman space, as the cost is too low to bother with (presumably this reflects the demise of the "trivial" cost category from 1e). But if you're in a situation where even small amounts of resources might be hard to come by (e.g. stranded on an alien planet or a distant asteroid or something) access to ammo might be come relevant, so the book gives a complexity for it, even if it's overpriced by a bit compared to places with established infrastructure.

OK. Thanks!

Dany40 Dany40's picture
DivineWrath wrote:Moving

DivineWrath wrote:
Moving discussion here:

Eperogenay wrote:
That's why 1e muses had Academics Psychology at 60, which made way more sense. It's bothering me here. I thought initially it was an issue with the relevant text and not the fact that muse didn't have it on sheet. Now this 'fixed' part looks insane.

I mean, ok, combining it all to explain that Medicine: Psychosurgery is used to heal stress would be fine... (although I still think psychology makes more sense, but w/e let's get outside granularity, fine) if not for that 30 skill. Sure, extra time can boost it but isn't there a limit on how much, not the time but the max bonus for a 'roll'?

edit: This is getting so offtopic that I'm going to shut up about it, but it just feels wrong, especially if you're losing one Know (at 40) skill for mandatory skill (at 30). I'll probably homebrew it for my games.

I double checked. The limit to bonuses is +/- 60. A Muse with Medicine: Psychosurgery 30 can reach a target number of up to 90 with bonuses. You can take extra time to get you to the full +60, with each +10 requiring 25% more time than normal. So instead of taking 1 hour to do psychosurgery, it would take 2.5 hours to get that +60 bonus. Remember you can only do 1 hour of psychosurgery a day, so it would take you at least 3 days to pull off. You can do psychosurgery in accelerated time simulspaces.

Negative modifiers can happen, with the potential to cancel out the bonuses from taking extra time. Traumas and disorders have such side effects. Overall, psychosurgery has no negative side effects, and works far quicker than letting stress heal naturally.

The more I think about it, the more I think we need something in the middle for stress damage. Psychosurgery works great if your mind is digital or can become digital, but there is nothing for those who are determined to remain sleeved in meat bags. Or are somehow stuck in a biomorph.

Don't forget another bonus source : complementary skills (p53) ...Know skills can aid Active skills.

Medecine (Psychosurgery) is an active skill ... so a muse with an appropriate Know skill (40%) could gain +10% for this task

Eclipse Phase french fan and Gamemaster until 2014

chaos_forge chaos_forge's picture
Sniffing & Tacnets

I'm trying to get a handle on the rules for sniffing and VPNs, but there's some areas where I'm not super clear on the rules. The rules for sniffing (page 245) say that eavesdropping on a connection is a hacking test, but what is the firewall of a connection? Do you just use the firewall of the device who's connections you're sniffing?

Secondly, the section on TacNets (page 327) says that one of the benefits they provide is maintaining a VPN. Does that mean that they provide the benefits of the VPN App (page 326)? What makes it more confusing is the fact that the Firewall Gear Pack (page 68) provides both a VPN App and a TacNet App. If TacNets provide the benefits of a VPN, this would seem rather redundant. Maybe the Firewall Pack should come with a Crypto App instead?

Also for TacNets, the same section I mentioned earlier ("Communications Management") also contains the lines "They actively monitor for dropped signals and hacking/sniffing/jamming attempts. Treat as Infosec 40." Does this mean the TacNet functions as a system defender for your PAN and/or VPN? If so, that could probably be made clearer.

On an unrelated note, the description for Pocket Lab (page 340) says "It operates with Know: Chemistry 60." Does this mean you need Know: Chemistry 60 to operate it, or that it makes its tests as if it had the skill Know: Chemistry at 60?

chaos_forge chaos_forge's picture
DivineWrath wrote:In my

DivineWrath wrote:
In my efforts to make different characters, I ended up designing one that has modified a Dwarf robot (p. 349) to be a combat morph. The rules seem to allow it.

A Dwarf has 18/14 armor with 150 dur, while a Reaper has 12/10 armor with 60 dur. Overall, a combat Dwarf seems to out class a Reaper. Its also cheaper, starting at 3 gp and the Reaper is 12 mp. However, the Dwarf can't fly and is a large creature.

It needs a cyberbrain (3 gp) to make it a sleevable as other morphs. This can be covered by MP. It also needs a cordical stack (1 gp). These costs could be reduced by skipping a cyberbrain and try to jam it while being an infomorph in the mesh inserts. As for armor, you could add industrial armor to push the armor rating to 24/18 for a price of 1 gp.

Except a Dwarf doesn't have any weapons mounts, or any arms to hold weapons or even hit people with. A combat morph that can't actually attack anything is a pretty bad combat morph. So you'll need to add weapons mounts. The Reaper has 4, so we'll add 4 weapons mounts to our Dwarf at a cost of 1 GP each. If you want to be able to have a Muse (probably a good idea unless you want to leave yourself completely vulnerable to hacking), you also need Mesh Inserts for another 1 GP, bringing up the total cost to 12 GP (3 GP bot, 3 GP cyberbrain, 4 GP weapon mounts, 1 GP cortical stack, 1 GP mesh inserts). So the same price as a Reaper.

At that cost, trading the ability to have hands, the ability to fly, 3 Vigor, and what will almost certainly be a hell of a lot of raised eyebrows, time, and/or Hardware checks for an extra 90 DUR seems like a pretty reasonable deal to me.

And if you're trying to jam it, you're gonna need a Drone Rig unless you want to take a -10 to literally every action, so you're only really saving yourself 1 GP. And you lose the ability to have a Muse, unless you want to add a second set of mesh inserts or a ghostrider module for 1 GP, which would mean you end up saving nothing.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
chaos_forge wrote:On an

chaos_forge wrote:
On an unrelated note, the description for Pocket Lab (page 340) says "It operates with Know: Chemistry 60." Does this mean you need Know: Chemistry 60 to operate it, or that it makes its tests as if it had the skill Know: Chemistry at 60?

I think it makes the test itself using chemistry 60.

chaos_forge wrote:
Except a Dwarf doesn't have any weapons mounts, or any arms to hold weapons or even hit people with. A combat morph that can't actually attack anything is a pretty bad combat morph. So you'll need to add weapons mounts. The Reaper has 4, so we'll add 4 weapons mounts to our Dwarf at a cost of 1 GP each. If you want to be able to have a Muse (probably a good idea unless you want to leave yourself completely vulnerable to hacking), you also need Mesh Inserts for another 1 GP, bringing up the total cost to 12 GP (3 GP bot, 3 GP cyberbrain, 4 GP weapon mounts, 1 GP cortical stack, 1 GP mesh inserts). So the same price as a Reaper.

Morphs and robots don't list the number of limbs anymore. So I'm assuming they have at least one pair of arms and one pair of legs. Many have more limbs.

Robots come with a number of parts. See p. 346.

Quote:
ALL ROBOTS
All bots are equipped with the following hardware, in addition to that listed with their specific description:
Ware: 360-Degree Vision, Access Jacks, Bot AI, Lidar, Mesh Inserts, Puppet Sock

So I don't have to worry about adding things like mesh inserts.

I was trying to be brief, so I didn't mention problems with jamming or the benefits of using special software or traits to negate jamming penalties. But thanks anyways.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Are there any morph creation

Are there any morph creation rules?

What about creating ALIs?

BlckKnght BlckKnght's picture
DivineWrath wrote:Are there

DivineWrath wrote:
Are there any morph creation rules?

When you say "creation" do you mean designing it from scratch, or just building it from an existing genetic template/blueprint? On page 291 there's a single paragraph of rules text about making morphs from a blueprint or genetic record, and a table giving the timeframes and tool requirements for doing so. It takes much longer for biomorphs than for synthrmorphs, with pods in the middle. It generally takes long enough that players should leave it to specialists who's whole jobs are making morphs (e.g. for a body bank).

I don't think there are rules for designing a morph from the ground up. It might be possible, but I suspect it would either take so long or need so many resources that it's expected to be out of reach for player characters. You probably need a whole R&D Hypercorp under your control or a lab of Argonauts supporting you to even try, and it will probably still take a very long time. Not many GMs will let their players spend a few years on R&D work between missions. Even within the game's own logic, a PC likely has responsibilities they need to uphold, either to Firewall or some other faction. The X-risks aren't going to resolve themselves while you tinker with new genes!

It is probably a lot easier to start with an existing morph design and tweak it to your own preferences (that might only take a few months of work). Or just a few days if what you want can be handled by adding in some standard ware.

Quote:
What about creating ALIs?

On this topic there may be more flexibility, though I suspect you'll still want to modify an existing ALI design most of the time, rather than programming your own from scratch. The book gives some general rules for how ALIs are limited on page 250, but it doesn't specifically say how you'd go about designing a new one during the game, as a character. If I was GM, I'd say that most practical variants on the standard ALIs (that is, what you'd get from swapping a skill or two from one in the book) are already being made somewhere in transhuman space. But not all of them will be openly for sale, especially if the new skills lend themselves to illegal activity. Some variants might be easy to get (just order it up), while others might require a whole adventure to go twist the arm of the designer so they'll sell it to you.

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