Details about Psychosurgery

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0eil 0eil's picture
Details about Psychosurgery


I'm quite new at Eclipse Phase and actually writing my very first campaign. I discovered Eclipse Phase during a long discussion about cyberpunk rpgs and I was explaining my passion for Ghost in the Shell. Actually, it's the part of the memory editing that seduced me.

I still had, after the reading of the core rulebook, a lot of questions about the psychosurgery. Actually, I'm wondering... the rulebook says, about the psychosurgery, that it's « almost always performed on a digital mind state » and « in most cases » on a copied backup. So it implies that it can be performed directly on an original ego? As it can be seen in Ghost in the Shell, for example, can the psychosurgery be performed ''simply'' by plugging directly on the target? I would like to put in my campaign a more agressive insight of the psychosurgery, have you got some advices? Maybe some ideas for implants and countermeasures? Would it be possible, for example, to have a second persona conceived as a trap for a psychosurgeon?

Thanks guys and sorry for my mistakes, I'm a french fan!


Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Mind = software

Mind = software

Why digital = x60 real time speed

Psychosurgery = "programming language" to modify the delicate, not 100% understood, (trans)human mind.

Good Programming Practices: update a copy, attempt to run, see bugs, correct, implement.

So yes, you can use Psychosurgery directly, and in real time, to "reprogram" someone... it will take "ages", and you are prone to producing raving lunatics.

Best way to GitS Puppeteer => grab a fork, Psychosurgery'd its copies until satisfied, replace original ego with fork.

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Some older thread for you to

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0eil 0eil's picture
Thanks for both answers,

Thanks for both answers! Actually, I might have been not as clear as I intended to be in my question.

Rules in the core rulebook seem to clarify psychosurgery in a very specific case – the best case actually – but the core rulebook lets aside a totally different way to process psychosurgery. The psychosurgery is described as:

Psychosurgery is almost always performed on a digital mind state, whether that be a real-time emulation, a backup, or a fork. In most cases, the subject’s mind state is copied via the same technol-ogy and process as uploading or forking, and run in a simulspace.

The rulebook even says:

Before an alteration is even applied, it may first be performed on a fork of the subject and run at accelerated speeds to evaluate the outcome.

So it seems that the psychosurgery doesn't have to be performed on a back-up ego or a fork, nor it has to be done in simulspace. The rulebook just gives the advice that, for the common use of the psychosurgery, when you want it done in the best conditions, you have to use a back-up and a simulspace. For me, it implies that psychosurgery can be done in real-time, directly on an ego, with the risk you might think. The rulebook even implies that there are a lot of programs helping the psychosurgeon in his editing:

For treatments, mental health software patches com-piled from databases of healthy minds are matched, customized, and applied. Specialized programs may be run to stimulate certain mental processes for therapeutic purposes.

If there are software patches with databases of healthy minds, there must be databases of successfully edited minds that might help. But there are nowhere to be find.

I was just hoping to know if there were more informations somewhere or if some DM already had thought about this and made their own rules. Or even if someone has some thoughts about possible rules about it!

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Well all of this is correct

Well all of this is correct and believe it or not, nothing here is contradictory.

You can run a psychosurgery on a live ego, but it is like trying to edit a program that is currently running. And you get only 1 try. After that the target is stuck with the consequences of failure or success...
I would assume that it could be neural damage of some sort. Because it is assumed that psychosurgery is done on a digital copy a failure can be simply discarded. A live edited one would have to be resleeved from back-up. Functionally the same but it is faster in digital. And to do the live edit the biobrain has to be hooked up to an ego bridge the whole time and with the cyberbrains it is so easy to make a copy that I wonder - why bother not to?

Running an accelerated fork to evaluate it is standard, because it is safer I guess.
Consider this:
Using simulspace acceleration ON THE PSYCHOSURGEON has a -20 modifier.
Because they have less acceleration over their patient therefore they have less subjective time to verify their work.
For example when surgeon is on 1x and the patient is on x60 the procedure is 6 days realtime. The surgeon works 6 subjective days. The modified forks can be tested for 360 subjective days.
When the surgeon is on x6 acceleration and the patient still on x60, then the realtime is
1 day, surgeon works 6 days subjective and the patient gets only 60 subjective days of verification.

Assuming 1 "patientfork" being run at the same time.

And finally I assume that healthy minds are the same as successfully edited or already having desired characteristics. So the library that you are looking for is the library that you already have.


Most of the above should be stamped with IMO before every sentence. I hope it does make sense.

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