Asyncs too fragile? | Eclipse Phase

Tue, 2010-03-02 18:53

#2

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

I actually like them being fragile (just consider how easily they go nuts in creepy situations... and they tend to cause creepy situations ;-) ). But maybe this is due to my dislike of psi in general. Maybe the bonus against the EV shouldn't be that they can resist it, but that the EV treats them as "one of us". Makes them less fragile, yet might add to the creepiness - the EV could actually be entirely right...

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Wed, 2010-03-03 00:18

#3

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
Given that most psi sleights in EP are fairly weak I think the asyncs are kind of unbalanced. They really seem to be glass characters that are awfully weak for the minor advantages they get. I meran, they're more vulnerable to mental stress damage under normal conditions, can't download into a non biomorph without going crazy, are more vulnerable to exsurgent virus infection, etc, etc, etc. In most cases their sleights they get in return are pretty weak for the boatload of weaknesses they get in return. I can see most of the weaknesses being valid, but would like to suggest one change to msake the asyncs more playable and more attractive: Instead of being more vulnerable to the EV, could they instead be made resistant to it and get a +20 to resisting it due to the fact they've been exposed to a weak strain of it and have developed a resistance? I think that might make them seem less made of glass and more attractive, and is fully justifiable in game terms.

Actually, if you take a long look at all the effects that sleights can have, you will see that psi is no laughing matter (if you aren't on the receiving end... asyncs laugh all the time, partly because they're mad). They can achieve such things as enhancing their speed, ignoring pain, boost aptitudes/skills, and even repair their own minds (who cares if they are more susceptible to insanity when they can bring themselves back to sanity far easier than anyone else?). And I was just talking about the Psi-Chi sleights... things just get better for them on the next level. Psi is intended to be integrally tied to the horrors of the setting. Their vulnerability to insanity is somewhat akin to the idea that they have a deeper understanding of how the universe works than normal people, and it has... affected them.... As for the last part, it is in no way justifiable. Building up an immunity makes sense for a natural virus, but the Exurgent Virus is anything but. It is an adapting, multi-medium, quickly-mutating, self-aware omnivirus. It is capable of affecting things both biological and digital, altering its own genetic/digital code to bypass safeguards, and altering victims both physically and mentally. While the Watts-Macleod nanoplague strain is one of the most benign strains of the virus there is, it is still a strain of the most advanced virus that humankind has ever seen. The susceptibility that asyncs have to future infection is due to the fact that the Watts-Macleod strain has adapted the victims body to accept another strain, and further his "evolution" into whatever the Exurgent Virus's end-product is. Hell, if you look at the stats for the digital version of the virus, you should notice that the damn thing is smarter than you are!

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Wed, 2010-03-03 13:43

#4

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

We;;. as to having the watts-macleod strain of the EV not making you resistant, suppose the WMS you have is basically a symbiotic virus with you and regards you as something like a host, and in fact might therefore defend you from other strains? One could justify making asyncs more, not less, resistant, to the EV and I just wish they would as it seems that asyncs have far too many weaknesses and drawbacks. I know it all goes back to D&D when wizards were made weak and fragile to balance their awesome magic powers, but an Async in EP isn't that powerful in game terms.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Wed, 2010-03-03 17:06

#5

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

But why should all kinds of characters be equally "powerful"?

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Wed, 2010-03-03 20:53

#6

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Maybe some people don't like playing glass characters. Also, asyncs have a major problem in the game as one of it's major points is the ability to change bodies and even go to an artificial body. In EP they have problems with doing it at all and major ones with going artificial. OK, that's understandable due to the fact that being psionic is a major deal to them and artificial life can't use psi, but in game terms it's a major issue. They can also go crazy at the drop of a hat, more or less. No need to make them physically disadvantaged vs the EV, one of the games major enemies. They already have a big enough problem with a major issue of the game, body swapping.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Wed, 2010-03-03 21:21

#7

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Eh. If they have the Multitasking slight (or an augmentation with a similar benefit), they can just have their Muse perform psychotherapy on them while they go about their day-to-day activities. Give them a few days of downtime, and they'll be back up and running again. The disadvantage when resleeving isn't all that bad, either. You're exaggerating the difficulties they have.

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Thu, 2010-03-04 02:09

#8

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
We;;. as to having the watts-macleod strain of the EV not making you resistant, suppose the WMS you have is basically a symbiotic virus with you and regards you as something like a host, and in fact might therefore defend you from other strains? One could justify making asyncs more, not less, resistant, to the EV and I just wish they would as it seems that asyncs have far too many weaknesses and drawbacks. I know it all goes back to D&D when wizards were made weak and fragile to balance their awesome magic powers, but an Async in EP isn't that powerful in game terms.

Except it isn't a symbiotic strain. It's a variant strain which has bizarrely shown no effects to its victims [b]yet[/b]. It may be an inert strain that waits a number of years before triggering with a new effect. It may be a strain which has decided to try and subvert itself into transhuman society before triggering its greater effects. There is nothing even remotely implying that this is a benign strain, especially considering the effects of all other strains. That said, it again all goes back the the nature of asyncs and the virus. They have already been driven partly mad (if not pretty damn mad) by the effects of the Watts-Macleod strain. It may be less potent than other strains, but is likely just as malignant as the rest. There is no logical reason (beyond personal conjecture into the meaning behind a mysterious aspect of the setting) that this strain would make you more resilient. And no, it really doesn't go back to the wizard. Asyncs aren't as fragile as you might think.

It that must not be named wrote:
Maybe some people don't like playing glass characters. Also, asyncs have a major problem in the game as one of it's major points is the ability to change bodies and even go to an artificial body. In EP they have problems with doing it at all and major ones with going artificial. OK, that's understandable due to the fact that being psionic is a major deal to them and artificial life can't use psi, but in game terms it's a major issue. They can also go crazy at the drop of a hat, more or less. No need to make them physically disadvantaged vs the EV, one of the games major enemies. They already have a big enough problem with a major issue of the game, body swapping.

Not really. An async with a muse to talk to is completely fine in a synthmorph shell. An async with a psychiatrist to talk to is completely fine in a synthmorph shell. They even speak of aerodyne programs that can be run in the background of your mesh inserts to keep you lucid (though I wish they would have given us a pricepoint for them, dammit). Short of isolating an async in an infomorph with no one for them to talk with, they are likely not going to suffer from morph fever. As for going crazy at the drop of a hat, I disagree. My async has a trauma threshold of 15, which is more than most people out there. More importantly, he can eliminate his own stress, unlike most people, with relative ease thanks to his sleights. Physically he is just as durable as everyone else. I've even successfully worked off one of my disorders through therapy (finally!). Don't discount them so easily.

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Thu, 2010-03-04 06:07

#9

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
Maybe some people don't like playing glass characters.

Maybe. But then they shouldn't choose glass characters. Imagine running a fantasy campaign and one player insisting on getting to play a serf. Except that they complain that a medieval serf is too weak and vulnerable - no combat skills, no magic, forced to work for their landholder and lousy physical attributes due to near-starvation. So why not give the serf character class some extra powers? Personally I think the right answer is that if you don't like playing weak characters, don't play serfs. Asyncs are fine as a part of the setting, but that doesn't mean they are ideal player characters. The non-idealness even makes them more interesting. I go the other way too: why not allow seed AGIs as player characters (or PCs turning themselves into seeds)? Sure, they are a tad powerful and hard to play. But I expect that they will produce plenty of interesting roleplaying and plot opportunities as they try to remain sane, uninfected and not destroyed by transhumanity...

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Thu, 2010-03-04 07:05

#10

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Arenamontanus wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
Maybe some people don't like playing glass characters.
Maybe. But then they shouldn't choose glass characters. Imagine running a fantasy campaign and one player insisting on getting to play a serf. Except that they complain that a medieval serf is too weak and vulnerable - no combat skills, no magic, forced to work for their landholder and lousy physical attributes due to near-starvation. So why not give the serf character class some extra powers? Personally I think the right answer is that if you don't like playing weak characters, don't play serfs. Asyncs are fine as a part of the setting, but that doesn't mean they are ideal player characters. The non-idealness even makes them more interesting. I go the other way too: why not allow seed AGIs as player characters (or PCs turning themselves into seeds)? Sure, they are a tad powerful and hard to play. But I expect that they will produce plenty of interesting roleplaying and plot opportunities as they try to remain sane, uninfected and not destroyed by transhumanity...

I still think he has to provide some reasoning as to why they are "glass characters" to begin with. All he has provided is their susceptibility to the Exurgent virus (which is only a real risk if they are coming into constant contact with it) and their reduced (by one point, might I add) trauma threshold. He has an equally valid argument if he were claiming that Infolife are "glass characters" because their social skills are costly at creation and they start off with Real World Naiveté. Most people would argue the opposite. Pointing out weaknesses and ignoring strengths will always make something seem inferior, but you have to take the whole concept into context.

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Thu, 2010-03-04 16:03

#11

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Decivre][quote=Arenamontanus wrote:
I still think he has to provide some reasoning as to why they are "glass characters" to begin with. All he has provided is their susceptibility to the Exurgent virus (which is only a real risk if they are coming into constant contact with it) and their reduced (by one point, might I add) trauma threshold. He has an equally valid argument if he were claiming that Infolife are "glass characters" because their social skills are costly at creation and they start off with Real World Naiveté. Most people would argue the opposite. Pointing out weaknesses and ignoring strengths will always make something seem inferior, but you have to take the whole concept into context.

You can buy off an infomorphs disadvantages with points eventually, to overcome the RWN problem. You can't buy off an async's vulnerability to the EV or his other flaws.

—

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Thu, 2010-03-04 16:34

#12

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
You can buy off an infomorphs disadvantages with points eventually, to overcome the RWN problem. You can't buy off an async's vulnerability to the EV or his other flaws.

Not true. Infolifes are stuck with a social stigma for life: this isn't Pinocchio, and your AGI can't become a real boy. Well... I suppose he can buy a morph to look like one. Most of the disadvantages that asyncs have can be worked off as well. The only disadvantage you are stuck with is the single point reduction in trauma threshold (which is, again, a very miniscule disadvantage considering that it is tied to their most important aptitude) and the susceptibility to the Exurgent virus (which isn't so common as to be constantly infecting your PCs anyways). Most of the other disadvantages are moot: asyncs being able to be affected by psi at twice the range is both a disadvantage and advantage in one. To that point, you are forgetting all of the advantages that asyncs have: a multitude of passive psi abilities which constantly assist them and enhance them beyond what most normal people can do (having both a multitasking sleight and implant, for instance; many of them also imitate positive traits, sometimes even being improved above what the positive trait does), and a multitude of active abilities both offensive and assisting (being able to heal their own stress naturally at 180 times the speed of normal humans is one that I can't stress how potent it is). A single point reduction in a single mental attribute and a penalty to your ability to resist one virus of the billions that exist does not make a character "fragile".

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Fri, 2010-03-05 01:13

#13

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Decivre wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
You can buy off an infomorphs disadvantages with points eventually, to overcome the RWN problem. You can't buy off an async's vulnerability to the EV or his other flaws.
Not true. Infolifes are stuck with a social stigma for life: this isn't Pinocchio, and your AGI can't become a real boy. Well... I suppose he can buy a morph to look like one. \.

As you said, an informorph can buy a morph and doesn't have to walk around saying "hi, I'm an infrmorph! Please discriminate against me!"

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Fri, 2010-03-05 03:07

#14

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
As you said, an informorph can buy a morph and doesn't have to walk around saying "hi, I'm an infrmorph! Please discriminate against me!"

And an async can make sure he gets proper mental treatment and takes care of his own mental integrity. Also, stay away from the Exurgent virus. Wow, that wasn't so hard, was it? I'm pretty sure that social stigmas are just a skosh bit harder than that to hide. If someone even gets a breath of the idea that you aren't a naturally born human, then in comes all the problems that come with it. Hell, someone detecting your digital ID code while giving you a brainwave scan would also be a dead giveaway.

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Fri, 2010-03-05 21:54

#15

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Decivre wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
As you said, an informorph can buy a morph and doesn't have to walk around saying "hi, I'm an infrmorph! Please discriminate against me!"
And an async can make sure he gets proper mental treatment and takes care of his own mental integrity. Also, stay away from the Exurgent virus. Wow, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Any PC should stay away from the Exsurgent Virus. That shit's nasty, and a good chunk of it automatically infects its victims. A -20 doesn't really matter much; you'll pretty much either be just fine, or you'll be autoinfected.

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Sat, 2010-03-06 18:34

#16

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Re not getting near the EV: Uh, have any of you gotten the GM pack and the (generally excellent) intro adventure it contains and that I reviewed on (ugh) rpg.net?

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Sun, 2010-03-07 13:11

#17

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
Re not getting near the EV: Uh, have any of you gotten the GM pack and the (generally excellent) intro adventure it contains and that I reviewed on (ugh) rpg.net?

I've ran it, and Exsurgent virus infection isn't that big a threat in the adventure for non-hackers (unless you are having sex with the infected, or plugging into their cortical stacks and Myrmidon technology). Most of the activities that will get you infected shouldn't be things that your async is doing (tell him to keep it in his pants and leave the hacking to the hacker). So long as you avoid blood spatter, the only real threat are the nanobots... and if those get ahold of you, then it doesn't really matter if you are an async or not... infection is guaranteed. Actually, I find that hackers are the bigger vulnerability in this adventure in comparison to asyncs. A hacker with 80 in his computers skills takes a -20-40 (depending on if they have the Hardware: Electronics skill) penalty to avoid infection from the AOK hack, which is quite a bit worse than what asyncs have to fear. Also, I think it fair to note that this mission was designed to be pretty damn hard. I've seen a few games of it ran, and most of them were TPKs (though a couple still did finish). It's somewhat unfair to show a single Exsurgent-themed adventure, where virtually the entire party including the async is at serious risk of infection, as an example of why asyncs are weak. Not every adventure will involve exsurgents (unless that's the sort of game you are running), and this weakness is only valid when it is involved, if at all.

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Mon, 2010-03-08 07:37

#18

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Really? I'd have thought it'd be a lot worse than that, given how basically every piece of mesh-equipped hardware on Earth should probably be hosting some variant of the Exsurgent Virus by now, and will promptly start hacking you and any piece of mesh-enabled hardware you've got the moment you step into radio range.

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Mon, 2010-03-08 12:39

#19

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

nick012000 wrote:
Really? I'd have thought it'd be a lot worse than that, given how basically every piece of mesh-equipped hardware on Earth should probably be hosting some variant of the Exsurgent Virus by now, and will promptly start hacking you and any piece of mesh-enabled hardware you've got the moment you step into radio range.

Not really. The exsurgent virus is actually very intelligent, and tries to predict where best to be in order to infect people. Moreover, it tends to be where humans inhabited, but there are places where infections do not exist (it has been mentioned that there are small groups of people that actually still live on earth). What I said doesn't mean that infection isn't impossible... it's very possible... but the weakness of asyncs is completely moot for it. One vector has penalties for knowledge in computers that are far worse than being an async (if you have Hardware: Electronics and/or Programming at 70+, your penalties to avoiding the AOK hack can be as high as 440; if you're playing this adventure with experienced characters and have both skills at 90+, you have a whopping -60 penalty to resisting the hack!). All other vectors pretty much GUARANTEE infection, rendering any weakness that asyncs have rather pointless. Avoid the latter, and you're better off as an async than you are as a hacker, yet I don't hear complaints that hackers are "glass characters".

Spoiler: Highlight to view

The real risk in Glory isn't infection anyways. Most of the games I've ran, everybody died because they were overrun by the swarm of Glory-infected immolators, which are violent cannibals. Believe it or not, being eaten is far more likely to kill you than the Exsurgent virus. :D

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Thu, 2010-03-11 02:51

#20

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Decivre wrote:
All other vectors pretty much GUARANTEE infection, rendering any weakness that asyncs have rather pointless. Avoid the latter, and you're better off as an async than you are as a hacker, yet I don't hear complaints that hackers are "glass characters".

Not really. It's pretty simple to make a character that's all but immune to the biological virii and basilisk hacks if you're a Remade. You'll only be infected on a natural 99. The only ones that really guarantee infection are the nanoswarms and femtoswarms.

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Thu, 2010-03-11 13:43

#21

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

nick012000 wrote:
Decivre wrote:
All other vectors pretty much GUARANTEE infection, rendering any weakness that asyncs have rather pointless. Avoid the latter, and you're better off as an async than you are as a hacker, yet I don't hear complaints that hackers are "glass characters".
Not really. It's pretty simple to make a character that's all but immune to the biological virii and basilisk hacks if you're a Remade. You'll only be infected on a natural 99. The only ones that really guarantee infection are the nanoswarms and femtoswarms.

Spoiler: Highlight to view

The strain in that adventure does not come in biological virus or basilisk hack form... so no, that doesn't help at all. It also has a new form that isn't in the core book, called an [acronym=Apple of Knowledge]AOK[/acronym] hack. I was talking specifically about the one in the adventure, since that was what was brought up as proof that asyncs are too fragile.

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Mon, 2010-03-15 20:15

#22

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Decivre wrote:
nick012000 wrote:
Decivre wrote:
All other vectors pretty much GUARANTEE infection, rendering any weakness that asyncs have rather pointless. Avoid the latter, and you're better off as an async than you are as a hacker, yet I don't hear complaints that hackers are "glass characters".
Not really. It's pretty simple to make a character that's all but immune to the biological virii and basilisk hacks if you're a Remade. You'll only be infected on a natural 99. The only ones that really guarantee infection are the nanoswarms and femtoswarms.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
The strain in that adventure does not come in biological virus or basilisk hack form... so no, that doesn't help at all. It also has a new form that isn't in the core book, called an [acronym=Apple of Knowledge]AOK[/acronym] hack. I was talking specifically about the one in the adventure, since that was what was brought up as proof that asyncs are too fragile.

Hmm? I just got the GM Screen + adventure yesterday, and it doesn't say whether the strain the Exsurgents are contagious with is in biological virus or nanovirus form, IIRC (I'm at uni at the moment, so I can't check). Also, the AOK hack is just barely more dangerous than a flat-out basilisk hack; my Remade PC would still only be infected on a 91+ (as opposed to a 99 on a basilisk hack). It also has a delayed effect, and with multitasking implants, you can proceed to use psychosurgery on yourself to remove the compulsion it gives you from the moment you start to get infected.

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Tue, 2010-03-16 02:17

#23

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

nick012000 wrote:
Hmm? I just got the GM Screen + adventure yesterday, and it doesn't say whether the strain the Exsurgents are contagious with is in biological virus or nanovirus form, IIRC (I'm at uni at the moment, so I can't check). Also, the AOK hack is just barely more dangerous than a flat-out basilisk hack; my Remade PC would still only be infected on a 91+ (as opposed to a 99 on a basilisk hack). It also has a delayed effect, and with multitasking implants, you can proceed to use psychosurgery on yourself to remove the compulsion it gives you from the moment you start to get infected.

It is a nanovirus: you can even find the nanohive where they are produced later in the adventure. As for the AOK, it's designed to affect hackers more than normal people. Your basic odds to be affected is COG+INT+SAV (to get your chance to be affected, you'd have to have 30 in all of those skills, or at least have modifiers to increase it to about that level), but you take a -10 penalty for every 10 points in the Hardware: Electronics and Programming skills. The more skilled you are, the more likely the AOK will affect you. More importantly, it's a subtle effect... people don't realize they've been infected by the Exsurgent virus by an AOK hack, unless perhaps they've seen AOKs before. Hell, someone who has the multitasking implant may even immediately merge all minds to make sure they are all infected. The Exsurgent virus is intelligent, and it's effects on your mind are immediate. Plus, no one yet knows any way to cure any strain of the Exsurgent virus, even with psychosurgery. Why do you think it's so damn scary?

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Tue, 2010-03-16 03:01

#24

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

The adventure explicitely says that it's possible to remove the compulsion to build the nanohive with psychosurgery. Besides, with multi-tasking, you could easily have both of the minds performing psychsurgery on each other before they performed psychosurgery on you. That said, it's an interesting idea, and I would imagine that the original Exsurgent Virus that infected the TITANs was likely something that worked on a similar principle.

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Tue, 2010-03-16 04:30

#25

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

nick012000 wrote:
The adventure explicitely says that it's possible to remove the compulsion to build the nanohive with psychosurgery. Besides, with multi-tasking, you could easily have both of the minds performing psychsurgery on each other before they performed psychosurgery on you. That said, it's an interesting idea, and I would imagine that the original Exsurgent Virus that infected the TITANs was likely something that worked on a similar principle.

I'm pretty sure that you must have psychosurgery done on you externally. As someone under an exsurgent compulsion, I find it implausible that you'd be able to resist the compulsion yourself long enough to remove it from yourself. Admittedly, I was wrong about psychosurgery being impossible (although only within the first 3 days), but being able to cure yourself of a mental effect while under its effects screams of "pulling yourself out of the mud by your own bootstraps". Remember that the AOK victims "literally ignore everything else, including basic hygiene and anything beyond basic sustenance, until the hive is built". After that they spend their waking moments focusing on finding the means to infect themselves with the nanoviral infection. They simply don't have the urge to cure themselves. That said, I agree. AOKs are an awesome concept, and I was a bit saddened when I realized they weren't in the core book.

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Wed, 2010-04-14 17:22

#26

Smokeskin

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It that must not be named wrote:
In most cases their sleights they get in return are pretty weak for the boatload of weaknesses they get in return.

The psi-gamme sleights look extremely powerful. Not much combat ability, sure, but for social infiltration and spy work, there's some totally awesome stuff. Cloud Memory, Deep Scan, Charisma, Drive Emotion, Empathic Scan, Mimic, Omni Awareness, Subliminal, Thought Browse - totally overpowered.

Wed, 2010-04-14 17:31

#27

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Smokeskin wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
In most cases their sleights they get in return are pretty weak for the boatload of weaknesses they get in return.
The psi-gamme sleights look extremely powerful. Not much combat ability, sure, but for social infiltration and spy work, there's some totally awesome stuff. Cloud Memory, Deep Scan, Charisma, Drive Emotion, Empathic Scan, Mimic, Omni Awareness, Subliminal, Thought Browse - totally overpowered.

Subliminal has massive combat potential. With a touch, I can tell any target to sleep. That to me screams of definite combat appeal. Of course, there's the drawback of taking 1d5+2 damage everytime you use it, but the applications are vast.

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Sun, 2010-05-02 15:25

#28

Checkmate

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

It'd be nice if psi sleights were a bit more original and different than what you can do with personal augmentations, skill points, or positive traits, too. With the exception of a handful of them (like Grok), psi sleights aren't all that unique or interesting. Some are significantly weaker than other alternatives at the same price (5 CP for Multi-Tasking versus 5 CP for Multitasking or Mental Speed implants/nanoware, the latter two giving you more than double the benefit of the psi sleight).

Mon, 2010-05-03 16:48

#29

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Checkmate wrote:
It'd be nice if psi sleights were a bit more original and different than what you can do with personal augmentations, skill points, or positive traits, too. With the exception of a handful of them (like Grok), psi sleights aren't all that unique or interesting. Some are significantly weaker than other alternatives at the same price (5 CP for Multi-Tasking versus 5 CP for Multitasking or Mental Speed implants/nanoware, the latter two giving you more than double the benefit of the psi sleight).

The psi gamma sleights are generally the ones that are interesting and fun. Psi chi sleights are intended to be only minor enhancements, all of which are incapable of affecting the outside world. They do have two major advantages over implants, however. For one thing, you only have to purchase a sleight once for it to function in every biomorph you ever sleeve into. Secondly, all sleights so far stack with any and all implants. You can get either multitasking and mental speed with the multi-tasking sleight, giving you a much bigger boost in the number of actions you can have (especially since multitasking and mental speed cannot stack with each other).

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Mon, 2010-05-03 16:59

#30

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Thats where I see the strength in Psi coming from. The stackable bonuses. +5 COG/INT and an extra Mesh Action/Phase is not to be laughed at. Psi is one of my favourite things to take if I am not going AGI hacker. That extra COG bonus is worth its weight in gold, so few ways to get it.

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Mon, 2010-05-03 20:50

#31

Checkmate

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Yes yes, but in the end it's just more of the same. Boring. Where's the telekinesis, pyrokinesis, clairsentience, and other cool traditional psionic powers?

Mon, 2010-05-03 20:56

#32

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Checkmate wrote:
Yes yes, but in the end it's just more of the same. Boring. Where's the telekinesis, pyrokinesis, clairsentience, and other cool traditional psionic powers?

Telekinesis and pyrokinesis are Level 3 psi powers, only possessed by Exsurgents. Clairsentience would be level 2 or level 3, depending on whether you're seeing through people's minds or seeing things directly, and it would be short-ranged to boot, like every other psi power.

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+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Tue, 2010-05-04 04:55

#33

Decivre

Re: Asyncs too fragile?

Checkmate wrote:
Yes yes, but in the end it's just more of the same. Boring. Where's the telekinesis, pyrokinesis, clairsentience, and other cool traditional psionic powers?

Psi in Eclipse Phase is anything but traditional psionics. I'd almost be tempted to say that it really isn't psychic abilities at all. Psi chi sleights are less akin to powers and more akin to alien mental processes. Psi gamma sleights are less like telepathy, and more like tactile basilisk hacks. True psychic abilities are left in the realm of psi epsilon sleights, which are only accessible by exsurgents and other such ETI horrors.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]