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Skill Minimums in Charicter Creation

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giblfiz@gmail.com giblfiz@gmail.com's picture
Skill Minimums in Charicter Creation
Ok, I realize this was touched on in the Character creation thread, but after reading the book I actually have several questions about this. (at least it's intent) All of these questions are phrased regarding the minimum 300 Knowledge points, but apply to the 400 minimum practical points as well.
Question #1
Does the 300 point minimum for skills mean you must SPEND 300 CP points, or that you must HAVE 300 skill points when it's when you finish spending?

(this was answered in another thread, but I'm restating it here for completeness) The answer I have heard is: you must have 300 skill points when you finish spending

Question #2
When you start buying points in a new skill your aptitude is immediately added to your score. Does this count towards your 300 point minimum? For instance if I make a character with Soc: 25 and then put 5 CP into networking:@ that gives me a networking:@ score of 30. Have I fulfilled 30 of my 300 minimum skill points, or have I only fulfilled 5 of them?

Question #3
Do skills that come as part of your background/faction template count towards your 300 point minimum? I.E. if I make an Argonaut and take +10 to Profession: chef & +10 to Academic:Biology does that get me 20 of my 300 minimum skills? Does my 70 points in native language count as 70 of my 300 minimum?

Question #4
So there is a skill point max of 60 @ 1 CP and a hard cap of 80 (during character creation). It appears that the primary use for aptitudes is to raise the starting score for skills, but it doesn't allow characters to exceed either of these barriers. Is this the case? More simply put: Ego based aptitudes do not let the character exceed 80 Points during character creation, correct?

Regarding Question #4: Basically an aptitude point seems to me to be worth roughly 1 CP per skill that the character actually uses it in. That makes it seem to me like 10 CP per is quite steep. Do they have another major advantage I haven't quite figured out?

Question #5
It appears from the sample character sheets that aptitude bonuses from your morph are able to break through the 60 pt / 80 pt cap. Is this the case?

Question #6
If a character wants to start off with more than one morph (Either spares on ice or running as forks) should they be bought with CP, Credits, or a Mix @ the players choice. If they are bought with cash should they cost the (3/4/50,000+) number listed next to the "expensive" Price for the morph?

I think it's pretty self evident that this game is EXCELLENT. If it doesn't go without saying I'm picking through all the fine details because I love this game and couldn't put the PDF down, not to be critical. I also tend to run for/with a pack of munchkins and have a compulsive need to find every hole in the rules, and overly powerful lever.
Slith Slith's picture
>>"Does the 300 point minimum
>>"Does the 300 point minimum for skills mean you must SPEND 300 CP points, or that you must HAVE 300 skill points when it's when you finish spending?"

The book seems entirely unambiguous on this point (pg. 136):
Each character must purchase a minimum of 400 skill points of Active skills and 300 skill points of Knowledge skills (see Skills, p. 170). Skills are bought at the cost of 1 CP per point.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Question 4: That is correct.

Question 4: That is correct. The way you calculate Skill Points follows the pattern that you create a character from the table on 130.

So lets say you had a REF Aptitude of 20, you are an Uplift/Anarchist and you want to buy the Fray skill. Fray is a REF skill, and you get a +10 from both Uplift and Anarchist. That means your skill starts at 40. Then you buy it up to 60, which costs you 20CP. Then you want to buy it up to 80, which costs 40CP. That is the current limit reached for total amount of Skill CP of 60CP, and 40 Skill Points purchased towards the 400 Active Skill minimum.

Now lets say you buy a Morph that gives you a +10 to REF. You then add that to your Fray skill *AFTER* you have worked it all out, and it increases to 90.

So the actual method is (Background + Faction Bonus) + (Ego Aptitude Bonus) + (CP Purchases Skill Points) [60/80 Limits Apply] + (Morph Bonus) [60/80 Limits May Be Broken].

Question 6: I think this is more a GM choice. I am playing it that the original Morph is bought with CP, and any spares with Credits using either the average cost for that price range, or the Minimum cost given for specific Morph.

In fact my custom character uses this to effect by having a small squad of Drones that are sleeved with Beta Forks of the actual character, all worked on to promote subservience to the real Ego.

{Edit: On Question 4, it probably would of helped if the Character Sheet followed the same pattern. So that it was labelled Aptitude, Faction/Background, Skill, Other, Morph, Total in that order. Anyone else find it weird that the Total Value is not the one on the furthest right, and so not the one the eye goes to naturally?}

Admini Admini's picture
1. Spend. Spend 300. Meaning

1. Spend. Spend 300. Meaning that of your 1000 points, 700 of them will be spent on skills (Not counting specializations).

2. Only 5 of them. Stop trying to cheat.

3. No. Neither your background/faction nor your language count. Quit being greedy.

4. Correct. (Regarding your regarding, aptitude only tests cover just about all rolls not covered by skills. They keep you sane, keep you alive, keep you standing, etc.)

5. It is the case.

6. They should be bought with credits only, minimum prices applicable. And the player should be reminded that they will have to pay for that morph's monthly upkeep (Though we should probably not apply that to synth morphs, except over very long periods of time), Moderate per month to the body bank.
Cardul Cardul's picture
In this
In this thread: http://www.eclipsephase.com/character-creation, Mr. Boyle contradicts you. Can you back up your assertions with comments by Mr. Boyle on these forums, please?
HappyDaze HappyDaze's picture
Your answer to Question 6
Your answer to Question 6 seems like it would allow for a fair bit of 'cheating the system' if it were allowed. For example, if I want to use a synth it's cheaper for me to pay the 10 CP to get a splicer and then the 5 CP (5,000 credits) to buy a synth. Effectively, you've gained the synth at half cost and if you really want to, you can always sell off your splicer to get some money back once gameplay starts. To really get broken, make sure to saddle all 25 CP of negative morph traits on that splicer you're planning on dumping. This is why my GM makes you sped CP for any morph taken at character gen, and tries to see that morph traits are balanced on the same morph.
Admini Admini's picture
It seems to me that he

It seems to me that he either was unclear or contradicted himself in that thread. I assume that your claims about him condradicting me are based on his comment, "It's the number of skill points, not CP,", but it's not clear who he is responding to, what point he is addressing, or even what he is talking about (there are no "skill points" anywhere in my copy.)

A later quote from the same thread: "When buying skills, you buy *up* from the linked aptitude -- you don't have to buy the aptitude points over again. So if your aptitude is 15 and you buy a skill at 16, you've only spent 1 skill point." Again with "skill points", but it seems to me that this comment has the virtues of being longer, more clear, and in support of my assertions. I'd say he meant "you've only spent 1 CP". I don't think he did contradict me, but if he meant to, I'd love him to set me straight.

My question for all these people who think (or want to think) otherwise is, "Why do you need more than 300 points to buy Rep (max 35 pts), Cash (max 100 pts), Moxie (max 135 pts), Psi (max 50 pt), specializations (no max, but be *very* generous and say max 80, which is 16 skill specializations), and traits (max pts 50)?" (I deliberately dodged including aptitude points; I've built several test characters, and none of them needed more than 105. Also, they're expensive and have no max. If you feel they're underrepresented, use the 80 I left for specs, and divvy it 50 to aptitudes and 30 to specs.) Total the max pts, and you get 450. Being able to buy two thirds of the possible CP-buyable stuff strikes me as pretty damn good already.

Building someone who is has maximum luck, cash, Rep, and 10 Psi-sleights is already possible with a few negative traits. Why would you need more?
RobBoyle RobBoyle's picture
You were correct with
You were correct with everything except Question #1. In that case, we meant 300 _skill points_, not CP. There seems to be a bit of confusion over the term "skill points." On the Customization Table (p. 135), we note that 1 CP = 1 skill point.

To be honest, however, it's a minor distinction, and I'm not sure I'd be too picky about it. The main intent was to force people to a) buy skills and b) buy more skills, especially Knowledge skills. It's been our experience that people prioritize Active skills, since they seem more useful off-the-cuff, so if you don't make them buy Knowledge skills, they get bypassed.

Rob Boyle :: Posthuman Studios

Admini Admini's picture
It's been our experience

It's been our experience that people prioritize Active skills, since they seem more useful off-the-cuff, so if you don't make them buy Knowledge skills, they get bypassed.

It's so true. I've been known to do it myself.