Armory Talk

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TadanoriOyama TadanoriOyama's picture
Armory Talk

If you guys have met the same bunch of crazy transhumans that make up the Sentinel core as me than you know how much some of those dudes love their guns. Don't get me wrong I'm partial to some violent impulses myself but some of the nut jobs I've seen... there was a guy I worked with outside Olympus who cornered me during a mission. Firstly, their where in a Reaper, which I just don't get at all, and secondly they where trying to tell me how to hack a plasma rifle to get it burning hotter because (and this is the crazy part) they thought it didn't go enough damage. I've seen those thing immoliate synths into slag with one bletch and this death seeking tank rider wanted to destablize the reaction to get more out of one.

Anyway I've wandered away from my point. Gun nuts aside I'm curious what everyone else brings to the table during a job. With all the firearms and devices you can pull fresh out of maker we've go just about everything we could ask for... and yet I see people come back to the same old things, even when something else might work better. What is that? Sentimentality? Dealing with limitations in training?

I'm as guilty as anybody, I guess. I haven't picked up a chemical propelled gun in years. Haven't even fired the railgun in awhile either, not since I started working with a freezer (I love that thing). So, what do you pull out of that carrying case when the bullet start flying: what you need or what you want?


Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Armory Talk

I guess mine isn't the sort of opinion you'd expect in a conversation like the one you suggest. I despise guns and weapons of all sorts, they got all out of control and destroyed the Earth and most of Transhumanity with it. And, in my line of work, words and information are far more useful than any gun. But, just so it remains noted, I do carry a small gun from time to time. A classical one, nothing specially fancy or big, those things I leave to my bodyguards. It still projects a sense of power and importance in certain circles to be armed, which is a useful social tool.

The mind is information... hack it!
+4
http://tribulaciones.es/

TadanoriOyama TadanoriOyama's picture
Re: Armory Talk

I don't remember much back from Earth there towards the end but I never met the gun that destroyed a whole country, let alone a planet. Bombs did that mostly. And, you know, nanoswarms. Large scale military hardware. Politicians. But I'm being intentionally obtuse, I should stop. Can't say I understand your ideals, not after some of the freakish stuff I've seen. That's organizational compartmentalization for you, eh?


Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Re: Armory Talk

:comm sequence interrupted:
::encrypting sub-routine::
:::user injected:::

I like this post.
I enjoy Seekers myself. Something about wrist-launched, smart missles. A buddy of mine rigged up a sweet anti-matter warhead suite. You wanna talk about a boom. But I digress. Being an Oversight affiliate I've seen quite a gamut of weaponry, but I'm always impressed by independents and their customized weaponry.

On Mars there was this one kook, so obsessed with total annihilation that he rigged up anti-matter slugs for a specialized kinetic delivery system. That was good too, we hijacked that ego once all was said and done. We got quite a few ideas from that guy before he finally cracked. Ego entropy is such a sad thing to see, but again I digress.

As to your question about our transition from the new to the "old", end quote as they say. I believe it does have to do with a bit of nostalgia yes. For myself it would have to be the sound of spent brass hitting the floor, such a sweet soliloquy of metallic song. This of course would lead one to assume that you need gravity for such things, however, I've found that the kinetic energy built on the spent casing is enough to have brass ricochet from walls and ceilings as well as floors.

At any rate, I'm off. See you all out there.

:communications terminated:
::encryption complete::
:::mesh node pacified:::

"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."

Acatalepsy Acatalepsy's picture
Re: Armory Talk

I'm not that much of a gun nut myself - personally, I just stick to a pulsar for personal defense, and come back in my VTOL if I need something really dead. Nothing says "no, really, stay dead" like a barrage of thermobaric missiles from a dozen km out. But I ran a flier for a crew of gatecrashers for a while, and those guys knew how to pack the firepower.

Take this one guy, for example. No names, of course. But he had a contraption he liked to call his "death hose". It was a microgrenade launcher, basically a coilgun, but fully automatic and backpack fed. It worked pretty much like what it sounded like. He'd pick something (or things) he wanted dead, and turn the "hose" loose on them. Bastard didn't even really aim all that much; just put up a curtain of fast-moving, deadly projectiles. I saw him use that thing on a this...black cloud...nanoswarm, I think - and it was beautiful. He put nearly a six dozen plasma microgrenades into it in the space of a few seconds. It ain't poetry, but damned if he didn't put the things down.

This isn't a war ordinary humans can win. This is the future. Death's an inconvenience, now. Nothing more.

LordNephets LordNephets's picture
Re: Armory Talk

I can't speak for my own experiences, I typically avoid violence and am perfectly fine staying by myself doing whatever I want.
However, recently I was implanted into the Muse of some morph I really don't care enough about to remember, but he was definitely interested in his guns. Giant guns, the type of thing you would see from a 1950's graphic novel (if you can remember those). Chain Gun, belts of ammo. He was a big man with a big gun.

It didn't help him.

All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.

LordNephets LordNephets's picture
Re: Armory Talk

EDIT OOC:

I didnt mean to double post, the forum just kind of did that.

All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.

Anarhista Anarhista's picture
Re: Armory Talk

That's right: guns don't kill people, people do! (using guns, but that's not the point)

I really, really like my custom made Arasaka sniper rifle with tungsten-carbide ammunition that accelerate over Mach 6.9 and ventilate the target at 6.5 klicks. The feeling you get when your target, completely oblivious of your presence, strolls at obscenely long range from you and you patiently check the range, wind vectors, Coriolis effect, atmospheric influence, gravitational effects of the planet/moons and myriad other factors until you exhale and squeeze, can only be called love. My online friend HK47 agrees with me on that but I digress. What I love even more then that is the look on my target face when he realizes that I won the bet, again, and shot the cigar of his face. I mean really, smoking is such a filthy habit and it will kill you more certain then any hazard on Mars...

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Armory Talk

Anarhista wrote:
That's right: guns don't kill people, people do! (using guns, but that's not the point)

My automated turret says you're wrong. He'll also call you an asshole, before he finally decides to kill you.

I'd tell him to stop shooting you, but he's really moody.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Anarhista Anarhista's picture
Re: Armory Talk

Damn! You got those perpetually ill-tempered, PMS bitchy turrets? My pilot had one of those and after he got drilling with 386 holes (all headshots) during breakfast, in witch he said something about turret accuracy, he quit buying them. Are you morning person...?

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

Ravn Ravn's picture
Re: Armory Talk

:encryption enabled:
::ghost node encrypted::
:::ghost node tunnel open:::

And here it devolved into the expected testosterone filled bragging competition, "my cannon is longer than yours"-stuff, and an attitude that will make you end up perma-killed.
Whelps.
The second you rely on guns is the second you've lost.
Info my friends, info and intel's the thing. Sure, I understand the libido connected gratification of things going boom, and have watched hyper-corp offices go up in flames from afar, but that's the key-word right there; afar.
And no personal involvement in the violence.

:::ghost node tunnel closed:::
::ghost node encryption disabled::
:encryption disabled:




Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Personally I'm more of a

Personally I'm more of a hunter, prefering sniper railguns with some chamalonic gear and drone suport (which can also be armed with their owns to distract as well as spot), but anything kinetic goes. I do not trust pure energy weapons, and there is a much wider array of options when we talk about kinetic ones. Also, distance buys time, and time can be used for hacking, recon, or retreat. Not to mention all the nasty gifts you can leave in the trail if you can afford it.
A friend of mine, on the other hand, prefers to go "intimate": he favours stealthy Ghost morphs, shredders in full auto, and a butcher's knife to pop up stacks. Risky, but he can really mess your day, specially when he throws some grenades.

Another good point of the kinetic weapons is the energy detection: unless you use some really good nanosecurity, it can be a pain in the ass to discover a Makita T-90 small gun, even loaded with special ammo to compensate for the small caliber. Such is the beauty of chemically-propelled ammo :).

Lilith Lilith's picture
>>Ravn

Words are wonderful things. I should know, after spending a lifetime (or two) trying to figure out how to best string them together. Some say I've gotten better. I still say I've room to improve.

That said, I still sleep better at night with my plasma rifle within arm's reach. Hildegarde gives me more comfort than any amount of intel I've been fed.

Zheng Zheng's picture
I personally prefer to have

I personally prefer to have others do my violence for me. Though some of those "others" are really me...sort of. For those occasions I like to have as many tools at the ready for any sort of situation. In most times though, I like to have something I can put on an arm slide and punches through armor.




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feetgear3 feetgear3's picture
Violence In Gun

If violence comes from gun then we should not make any guns and use only tranquilizer guns from M16 to Machine Gun and all kind of ammo and not the deadly ones that can kill people.. I hate violence..

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Taejix Taejix's picture
Not much one for violence

Not much one for violence myself - I'm old enough to remember when putting a bullet in someone was actually permanent, so I'm still a tad leery about doing it nowadays. Call me old fashioned if you must.

Still, self-defence is an important capability to have, so I tend to carry a Freezer myself. Easy to use, non-lethal and less likely to cause collateral damage than other options. Of course, some folks (mostly those who like to run hot on neurachem, reflex boosters and adrenal mods) might say that freezer foam is too easy to scrape off before it hardens, so I like to lace mine with Twitch dissolved in a DMSO carrier. Still non-lethal, but it gives it that extra bit of 'stay down'. I've been searching for a decent, fast-acting, non-lethal nanotoxin to replace it with to deal with fellow synths a bit better, but no luck so far.

Beyond that, I've got a Shredder somewhere around the lab, just for those times when non-lethal isn't enough. Tend to carry one when I'm out doing work for the Eye too - no reason to go non-lethal when dealing with Exsurgents.

-Vivacious

Fion Ravenwater Fion Ravenwater's picture
@Ravn:

@Ravn:

See, I've worked with a few spooks that have had similar attitudes to your own, and they never seem to grok that when you "watch hypercorps offices go up from afar", there actually needs to be someone making them go up. And all the intel in the world won't matter if the operator doesn't know how to play it. That's why businessmen like me get paid the big money.

In a firefight, I prefer to use my Brokk Metallurgy Gungnir, but it's not exactly feasible in a lot of environments, as its size is somewhat unwieldy, it can shoot holes in the exteriors of some less-reinforced stations, and people tend to get twitchy when they can see it. That's why I tend to optimize my morphs for subtlety; I've got two monofilament messer and a pair of CHK 2210s tucked away in this body, plus an alarming amount of toxins and liquid thermite.

It's strange; I find a lot of the newer weapon technologies tend to falter against synths. With the lack of effective incapacitation weaponry there's not much substitute for crippling physical damage, which is the specialty of kinetic weapons. Splashing liquid thermite on them helps, though.

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
Ordinarily, sentinels are

Ordinarily, sentinels are meant to take a more flexible and subtle approach, calling on an erasure squad if such a tactic proves ineffective. Unfortunately, erasure squads are often distant and poorly briefed on the situation, making their response rather messy, if they are available at all. In these cases, it is useful to be prepared for violence. There are TITAN-tech enemies whose quick destruction are vital for mission success, sometimes making otherwise risky strategies, such as over-riding the safety features of a plasma gun, to be not only justified, but possibly the safest course of action.

As for weapon choice, the limitations of training often mean that a small selection of weapon categories are focused on optimize effectiveness. Restricted fabbers, even when hacked, require the user to have the right blueprints, so there are often limited number of trusted blueprints on hand for a sentinel, normally a favored weapon. It is suggested that a team vary their weapon skills somewhat so that in a situation where the team is limited to found gear, at least one member will be able to make use of each weapon found (alternatively, having similar gear allows for weapon and ammo sharing.)

I personally find kinetic and seeker weapons to be the most versatile in ammunition options, though their ammunition limits are troubling. Pistols and bullets can often be fabbed in smaller fabbers in a few parts in a fairly short amount of time.

Acatalepsy Acatalepsy's picture
Quote:See, I've worked with a

Quote:
See, I've worked with a few spooks that have had similar attitudes to your own, and they never seem to grok that when you "watch hypercorps offices go up from afar", there actually needs to be someone making them go up. And all the intel in the world won't matter if the operator doesn't know how to play it. That's why businessmen like me get paid the big money.

Damned right. I can't count the number of times I've seen missions that start with "If we do this right, no one will even see us" end with me pulling a hot extraction against a swarm of hostile secbots - or worse.

Most of my jobs come down to getting in quietly or getting out noisily, and since this is the armory chat, let's talk about the latter. The bird in question is a Superdynamics Logos, a two-engine thrust vectored multimode VTOL. Those who know your aviation will know that the Logos is a civilian aircraft, but it's basically the same airframe as the Superdynamics AirWarrior, minus a lot of the toys and hardening...and the blueprints for the AirWarrior, along with quite a few of its accessories, have been more or less 'open source' since not too long after the Fall.

So when we're on down-time, it's a fairly run of the mill tour guide or courier in the outback. When we're on the clock, I - and a shop full of bots - can convert the thing to a lean, mean, killing machine in about twelve hours.

Primary armament is the missile launchers, four boxes of four a piece. I wasn't kidding when I said my favorite way to kill something was a spread of thermobarics, but that's rarely on the menu. Instead a typical load is eight HEAP, four HE, and an EMP, Overload, Concussion, and Plasmaburst. The missile pods are variable-linked, so the exact characteristic and mods depend on the mission, but most commonly you'll see GDS-brand active guidance systems, for all-range homing capability. Most of them also have a laser guidance mode, and I have a laser mounted on the chin turret, but it's rarely worth the bother.

Next up is the chin turret! Like I said, it's got a laser mount, but that's not why it's there. The chin turret mounts dual particle beam bolters, for high-damage precision work at a reasonable distance against evading targets. Not much to say about it, other than that the thing's damned temperamental if you're maneuvering too fast, because you'll start to get blooming effects - but it's really the only choice for drone removal, and a decent support weapon. Another GDS product.

Then we move on to the real support gunnery. Here we've gone away from GDS to a Krypton Armaments - they're a Lunar brand - heavy machine gun. They're mounted on a smart bracing system right outside of either side door, and the mount uses pseudomuscles that let the gun be controlled either by the craft or manually by someone in the main compartment, in the door gunner's spot.

Finally, the defensive armament. Four shard pistols on articulated mounts for almost-complete coverage, integrated into the threat tracking software for both final defensive fire against incoming missiles and for close support - and that second one comes up depressingly often when dealing with creepy, crawly, weird alien shit. The defensive armament is supplemented by a pair of micromissile mounts on the top, with EMP and smoke/chaff loadouts.

If you think all of this shit is too much for one pilot to handle during a rapidly changing operation, especially one as chaotic as a hot extraction - well, you're partially right. There's a reason I have some damned good wetware. But my muse also handles a lot of the abstraction and simplification, and the ECM/Gunner role can be handled either by Erika Sven (Firewall handle), my sometimes friend and almost as gun-happy as the lot of you, or by yours truly in fork form. In truth, I don't like doing the fork thing - even if it's temporary, the merging is always a bitch, and Erika - or someone else - will see things that I'd miss if the only eyes on the situation were mine.

This isn't a war ordinary humans can win. This is the future. Death's an inconvenience, now. Nothing more.

savanah savanah's picture
I don't like carrying guns,

I don't like carrying guns, being a neo avian it's rare to find any kind of weapon that is designed for uplifts. (I'm telling you, this is pure specicism! They are keeping us subjugated!)

But in recent times I finally managed to put my claws on a nice custom made seeker launcher that works amazingly well for something I traded for some strange photos, I'm still getting used to all the different kinds of amunnition that I can load into that thing! It's like choosing ice cream, but it explodes!

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
savanah wrote:I don't like

savanah wrote:
I don't like carrying guns, being a neo avian it's rare to find any kind of weapon that is designed for uplifts. (I'm telling you, this is pure specicism! They are keeping us subjugated!)

But in recent times I finally managed to put my claws on a nice custom made seeker launcher that works amazingly well for something I traded for some strange photos, I'm still getting used to all the different kinds of amunnition that I can load into that thing! It's like choosing ice cream, but it explodes!

No offense, but making weapons for neo avian morphs is annoying as hell for us land-bound techs. With strict weight and recoil limitations, no to mention how awkward it is to maneuver and aim a weapon with talons, you pretty much need a bird on the design team to do things right. Even then, you are talking about using a fairly fragile morph.

I would suggest considering jamming or sleeving into a flying bot or synth for heavy combat so you can mount more serious firepower while keeping the advantage of your natural flying prowess. The black bird is an excellent stealth flyer synthmorph that looks cool while still being practical. Add a built in seeker launcher or assault rifle and some light combat armor and you have a terrifying invisible bomber.

hhexo hhexo's picture
Snipe or incapacitate

I see there's a fair number of snipers in this thread. I won't deny I'm one too. Zaitsev SR12, the railgun version. And a selection of rounds. If you can, it's always better to take out targets from afar. Of course that requires preparation. Research. Shadowing your target, learning their movements, hacking into the networks they usually access, collecting data. Once you've done that... well, sometimes it is just easier to go electronic. Hack into the habitat and vent their room into space. Or stop the life support system recycling oxygen.

Sometimes however you have to get close and personal. In which case I try to incapacitate. Sleeves these days are quite tough, and if you're up against trained personnel they are going to have good mods too. I found that you're not likely to one-shot them. Freezer, shock, or EMP: that's what you need. That gives you time to deal with them any way you want, really.

Unless you get too close to a Reaper or one of those crazy tanks, of course. Then you have done it completely wrong. You don't get close to one of them. It's a mistake you make once and try not to repeat. Although it was fun to headbutt that Reaper and then activate the emergency farcaster. I'm told the AM explosion did make a dent in the thing, for what it's worth.

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
hhexo wrote:I see there's a

hhexo wrote:
I see there's a fair number of snipers in this thread. I won't deny I'm one too. Zaitsev SR12, the railgun version. And a selection of rounds. If you can, it's always better to take out targets from afar. Of course that requires preparation. Research. Shadowing your target, learning their movements, hacking into the networks they usually access, collecting data. Once you've done that... well, sometimes it is just easier to go electronic. Hack into the habitat and vent their room into space. Or stop the life support system recycling oxygen.

Sometimes however you have to get close and personal. In which case I try to incapacitate. Sleeves these days are quite tough, and if you're up against trained personnel they are going to have good mods too. I found that you're not likely to one-shot them. Freezer, shock, or EMP: that's what you need. That gives you time to deal with them any way you want, really.

Unless you get too close to a Reaper or one of those crazy tanks, of course. Then you have done it completely wrong. You don't get close to one of them. It's a mistake you make once and try not to repeat. Although it was fun to headbutt that Reaper and then activate the emergency farcaster. I'm told the AM explosion did make a dent in the thing, for what it's worth.

Sniping can be rendered useless in more cramped habitats, tac-net antics aside. Though There have been so interesting long shots in cylinder habs from one side to the other, after rotation is factored in.

thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
Slagging Useless Novelty Items

{Private Browsing active}

During my time as a security goon for Exotech, I got to witness the corp's shift away from being dependent on Direct Action for all their people-hurting tools. Let me tell you, I kind of wish they didn't try.

You know that new line of surveillance products they've put out, Domovoi Home Security? That was a thinly veiled excuse to start designing their own weapons. Their initial attempts, well, they're over designed junk heaps. The pistol I was assigned was built compact, like the peashooters you see gangsters carrying in action XP, but chambered for the largest caliber they could fit. The dev team managed that by stripping out any feature that would make the gun actually useful, like burst fire or something. My first action upon getting recruited into this little circle of friends was dumping that thing into the fabber feedstock and turning it into my old beam pulser. Frack the Domovoi.

That, and the drug glands in my Hibernoid kept shooting me up with Grin every time I hit my funny bone. I still have rebound headaches.

"Still and transfixed, the el/
ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute

Nysamu Nysamu's picture
A balanced approach.

Honestly, everyone has their preferences, but I like to have all the bases covered, so to speak. My Reaper morph is loaded with every defensive upgrade I could afford, and I keep a choice selection of weapons mounted for different combat situations: A gyro-mounted railgun sniper rifle for long range engagements, a machine gun with biter ammo and homing seeker rifle for firefights, and a torch for clearing away nanoswarms or other small, numerous enemies. I don't have much combat experience yet, since I've just started working with Firewall, but this was the most well-rounded setup I could think of. So far, it's served me pretty well, but I'll probably tweak it based on what I come up against later on.

Recently, I've put together a Fury biomorph, since Reapers tend to draw way too much attention flying around habs. While incapable of handling the same kind of weaponry as my Reaper morph, I find I rather like the feel of a railgun automatic rifle with an underbarrel seeker launcher in my hands.

AGI are people, too.