(a)normal toughs

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fafromnice fafromnice's picture
(a)normal toughs

I know i have to think outside the box most of the time i ask a question on this forums but now i have no imagination what so ever

in the books we have some mention about irregular toughs patterns research for AGIs and Uplifts and i was wondering what it encompass most of the time. Like I said I have, in this moment, no imagination what so ever and this morning in my shower (where i have most of my epiphanies) it was just a dump blank on this question

What are experimental research on toughs patterns? What will be like an AGI with no (trans)human frame of reference (and what will be the stress damage) ?

Personally I like the AGI program to keep all the paperclip he/she/it finds (I read somewhere that an AI who is program to do that will eventually destroy the word) but it is getting old :P

and only changing the paperclips for something else don't really change the idea. Secondly an AGI program(/grown) to do that is only a reminiscent of the old Aoutomaton's fear in the Freudian Psychiatry (God create men. Men destroy God. Men create new life/AI. New life/AI destroy Men. It's the idea behind Frankenstein and HAL 9000). I prefer the Golem 14 idea where Golem try to enlighte human, a benevolent seed AI of some sort.

So anyway does somebody have great idea of AGIs who would like to share ?

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
This really belongs in the General forum, not Off Topic :D

I'm not sure you have the right idea about what non-human thought patterns means.

It doesn't really refer to the Paperclip Maximiser, rather it refers to a mind that perceives and comprehends the world in a fundamentally different manner to humans - that is, it doesn't use the same mental shortcuts or assumptions as a human would, such as identifying faces, using language or perceiving motion.

You can get a simplistic idea by imagining a mind based around other terrestrial life. How does an angler fish see the world, or a Tree, or a swarm of bees? How about a mind with no concept of Left or Right, or Names, or Self? How about a mind which cannot perceive objects, only quantities of elements? One that hears light, and sees sound?

The trick is that all those examples, no matter how alien you imagine them, are actually terrible. Some are even examples of actual humans. A human mind is by definition incapable of imagining what it's like to experience a non-human mindstate.

It's like asking what the colour of unrequited love tastes like.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

fafromnice fafromnice's picture
A fair number of population

A fair number of population didn't see the world like I see it

I presume that an AGI who place his ear before his eye will have a different "view" of the world (some Amazonian Tribes do, because of the line of sight in the forest)

and Off Topic because we are giving idea on how to plays AGI and other (like factor, how to play an Alien intelligence), I presume this could fit in both place

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

kindalas kindalas's picture
General Discussion

Now it is in the General Discussion forum.

Off Topic is for non Eclipse Phase related discussion.

Many users of the site skip the off topic forum.

Kindalas

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Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
http:/

http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/issue-5/page-60-2/
This page has two characters discussing the pitfalls of creating AI from scratch. Played a bit for humor, but with some thought provoking ideas.

The rest of the webcomic is quite good too!

Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Wierd humans are still humans.

fafromnice wrote:
A fair number of population didn't see the world like I see it

I presume that an AGI who place his ear before his eye will have a different "view" of the world (some Amazonian Tribes do, because of the line of sight in the forest)

This is sort of my point. Many people have a different perception of the world than you do, in some cases to the point of nigh-incomprehensibility... and you still have more in common with those people that you would with the type of mind they're experimenting with.

You literally cannot imagine how such a mind would work because you implicitly use your own mind as a point of reference.

When considering new or unusual senses we automatically equate how they are experienced to our own, and when we consider emotions we use a human base of rage, love, apathy, joy ect. modified in intensity and trigger, but both of these are false metaphors to gain some form of understanding, like trying to explain "Blue" to a blind person.

If you want to run an NPC that's based upon such a mind, such as an experimental AGI or Factor, then the closest you can get is making them seem random.

Give them a coherent goal if you must, but make their pursuit of that goal seem random, pointless or just plain stupid... and have it work. Communication, when necessary, should be difficult, unclear and confusing. Use various languages and bad grammar, swap topics in the middle of discussions or sentences. When speaking, occasionally stop and start holding up pictures vaguely related to the topic, or start touching your group's hands or clothes, or have little jars of spices handy that they can smell.

On the other hand, if you want something based on a transhuman mind, that's a lot easier. The easiest way to represent such minds is through mental traits. For example, non-standard emotional responses translate well to being a socio- or psycopath, but without any form of instigating trauma.
I actually wrote up some rules for representing such a mind here.

Also, see Superficial Intelligence by LoadingReadyRun.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Scottbert Scottbert's picture
The 'Playing AGIs and

The 'Playing AGIs and Informorphs' section in Transhuman tells us about AGI thought process and what it's like to be an infomorph.

I also just saw a nice bit of writing here about an uplifted octopus psychologist observing transhumanity.