4th printing: is it definitive?

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
LucaCherstich LucaCherstich's picture
4th printing: is it definitive?

I finally decided to approach more seriously Eclipse Phase...so I want to buy the printed core rules (I did everything with pdf thus far).
The question is: Is 4th printing definitive?
Did anybody spot any error post 4th printing?
And maybe a stupid question: is a new edition planned or can I be sure that this version if Core Rules will be the definitive one for sometimes?
Thanks a lot.

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
As far as i know there is no

As far as i know there is no eclipse phase 2.0 in the works yet as they are still expanding on the current rules base.

There may be a few errata items that did not make it to the printers in time back when they crowd sourced us for errors but currently there is no official errata on top of of the 4th edition printing

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Typically what happens is

Typically what happens is each time they run out of books, they start another printing run. Since they are printing new books, they go ask the community if there is anything that needs fixing. Nothing more than that really. Some new errors might have been spotted since the last printing.

I don't think it is possible to expect the books to be perfect. Only that they've tried to fix all the errors that they could.

slickMundane slickMundane's picture
So to continue in this line

So to continue in this line of discussion, which books do you refer to the most in game play? After reading the core rules/transhuman what would you recommend new players read to get a good grasp of the setting?

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Panopticon, absolutely. It

Panopticon, absolutely. It expands on the panopticon greatly, and the expanded sensor rules come up a lot. It also serves as the region agnostic guide for transhuman culture and every day life (which I wish there was even more of).

After that, Sunward or Rimward would be my next read, depending on where the campaign is going to spend most of its time. Gatecrashing is slightly niche, as plenty of games won't ever approach a Pandora Gate, but invaluable if they do. I personally find Firewall a better GM guide than player reference, but for someone who wants to learn more about how a conspiracy survives in the panopticon it's very helpful.

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
If you are running a game,

If you are running a game, Firewall is super useful, if you are running a Firewall/Players-Are-Sentinels game, than Firewall is all-but-required!

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

slickMundane slickMundane's picture
really? With Firewall being

really? With Firewall being the newest book, I would think it would be low on your list of important info sources. I have told my players they will be starting as fairly new sentinels with a 20-30 range limit on their firewall rep. To me that means they know little about the deep organization issues or much beyond what they can pick up on The Eye with their limited connections and from their server. Panopticon to me has much more vital setting info. I have yet to read Sunward/Rimward myself but those will be my next stop. Gatecrasher has a lot of interesting stuff but not so important if you arent dealing with the gates extensively. I myself will read Firewall and use it to some extent but I wont require my players to even pick it up.

DG.MWD DG.MWD's picture
4th printing reads as pretty

4th printing reads as pretty definitive.

In terms of the other books I found Transhuman really useful for starting my current game, does a lot to streamline character gen so that's a really nice one to have. After that I think it depends on what your campaign is focused on, my game is non-Firewall and quite Gate focused so I've found Gatecrashing quite nice. Oh and the Morph Recognition guide, while not at all essential, is really convenient and just looks nice.

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Well firewall greatly expands

Well firewall greatly expands on the scope and background of things, however you are right and that is is very hard to define a GM only section of it.

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
It would take some careful

It would take some careful selecting to find the player-safe parts of Firewall, but the entire book for GM's is nigh essential. Before Transhuman (the de facto player's guide), I wish I had read Firewall first. Then Panopticon, then Rimward (for the rep economy bits, which is useful systemwide, since we all know how capitalism basically works Inner System).

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

LucaCherstich LucaCherstich's picture
So, for astarting Gamemaster,

So, for astarting Gamemaster, after Core rules & Transhuman, what' s more "useful" to read, Firewall or Panopticon?

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I'd say Panopticon: Your

I'd say Panopticon. Your players might read it, and it describes a major plot point of the setting, the Panopticon.

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
I'm still not sure how to

I'm still not sure how to handle the Panopticon in EP without it being GM fait. Like in theory, the PC may be being watch at any moment, everywhere. And sometimes you the GM force them into situations where they can't do their illegal works in the blindspots of the ever seeing eye.

So what do you do there? I mean, it feels easier or more justified to zing the players if they dont cover their tracks after a thing happens.

But that doesn't stop them from being watch in real time, from some yahoo. They were just flipping through "channels" and spotted this firefight or drug deal or ego extracting. Most folks would call the cops.

So like how do you handle that? How do I as a GM have that simulation happen, without just shitting on the players?

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
If you are recording

If you are recording everything, then there would be a lot of data to shift through. It is very possible that not everyone will ever get around to watch everything. Further more, Human minds tend to lose competence when doing mind numbing work. AIs maybe not so much, but there is a cap on how good they can be.

On the other hand, Firewall has teams of people who specialize in data scrubbing. They can delete data, replace data, throw around some red herring, blame other people, etc. They can do a lot of things to push the blame and risks away from themselves. They're not the only ones who do that data scrubbing, so expect groups like OZMA, Jovians, Titanians, etc to help clean things up. Do keep in mind that they have different agendas. Left to their own devices, they might hide facts about TITAN monsters, but they might shift the blame to competing group such as you.

Sometimes sentinels might have to throw away a fake ID... or even their real one as they can't easily get rid of the blame.

LucaCherstich LucaCherstich's picture
So, does everybody agree that

So, does everybody agree that Panopticon is more fundamental than Firewall?

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
I agree at least.

I agree at least.

UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
If you're a player, yes. As a

If you're a player, yes. As a GM, I think Firewall offers a lot of useful information about the setting that PCs probably won't know which can be useful for ideas and structuring a game - especially a Firewall one. Panopticon still has uses to you, but it's not as deep into the meta as Firewall is.

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Kojak Kojak's picture
MrWigggles wrote:I'm still

MrWigggles wrote:
I'm still not sure how to handle the Panopticon in EP without it being GM fait. Like in theory, the PC may be being watch at any moment, everywhere. And sometimes you the GM force them into situations where they can't do their illegal works in the blindspots of the ever seeing eye.

So what do you do there? I mean, it feels easier or more justified to zing the players if they dont cover their tracks after a thing happens.

But that doesn't stop them from being watch in real time, from some yahoo. They were just flipping through "channels" and spotted this firefight or drug deal or ego extracting. Most folks would call the cops.

So like how do you handle that? How do I as a GM have that simulation happen, without just shitting on the players?

Personally, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the rules for handling exactly this sort of thing found on pgs. 162-164 of Panopticon. Give them a read, they go a long way toward dealing with exactly the problem outline.

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

consumerdestroyer consumerdestroyer's picture
Skipjacking is the best, it'd

Skipjacking is the best, it'd be so awesome to be fleeing through stalls on the outskirts of Olympus and just vanish from surveillance as you run.

I like the idea of an entire party of sentinels (or Jovian/Titanian spec ops or Ozma or w/e) with high Infiltration just skipjacking from one end of a hab to the other in shapers, rotating disguises as they go just in case. Everyone ends up at the place they need to be, and when the dirty business goes down on cams they didn't manage to spot on their initial sweep, they reverse the process back to the airlock and walk off calmly as different people. No one can connect their entry and exit disguises with a) each other, b) any of the faces along the way where they missed a skipjack test or c) the disguises at the scene of the (x-risk prevention-related, hopefully) crime.

But there's only ever the one sentinel with good enough Infiltration, everyone else is always stumblejacking.

Kojak Kojak's picture
consumerdestroyer wrote

consumerdestroyer wrote:
Skipjacking is the best, it'd be so awesome to be fleeing through stalls on the outskirts of Olympus and just vanish from surveillance as you run.

I like the idea of an entire party of sentinels (or Jovian/Titanian spec ops or Ozma or w/e) with high Infiltration just skipjacking from one end of a hab to the other in shapers, rotating disguises as they go just in case. Everyone ends up at the place they need to be, and when the dirty business goes down on cams they didn't manage to spot on their initial sweep, they reverse the process back to the airlock and walk off calmly as different people. No one can connect their entry and exit disguises with a) each other, b) any of the faces along the way where they missed a skipjack test or c) the disguises at the scene of the (x-risk prevention-related, hopefully) crime.

But there's only ever the one sentinel with good enough Infiltration, everyone else is always stumblejacking.

Actually, my players do exactly that: all but one of them (the async) are skilled in Infiltration, so skipjacking to avoid attention is something they do regularly.

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

consumerdestroyer consumerdestroyer's picture
Ah, people playing in my

Ah, people playing in my games tend to hyperspecialize so much that anything not part of their core concept tends to top out at 60 (if that, 45 or less mostly), so everyone does try to be sneaky together it's just that half the party succeeding is a good day.

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
One thing that I'd like to

One thing that I'd like to bring up, that I've learned after a few years of making RPGs: sometimes the order that books are released is not a good indicator of how "important" a book is within the entire line. There are some books -- and I'd say that both Transhuman and Firewall fit into this category -- that are better when left later, because they benefit from knowing what people are actually doing with the game, what problems they've found, what gaps need filling.

LucaCherstich LucaCherstich's picture
AdamJury wrote:One thing that

AdamJury wrote:
One thing that I'd like to bring up, that I've learned after a few years of making RPGs: sometimes the order that books are released is not a good indicator of how "important" a book is within the entire line. There are some books -- and I'd say that both Transhuman and Firewall fit into this category -- that are better when left later, because they benefit from knowing what people are actually doing with the game, what problems they've found, what gaps need filling.

And, in this sense, given how it fills gaps, do you think that Firewall is more "essential" than Panopticon for a starting GM?
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
LucaCherstich wrote:And, in

LucaCherstich wrote:
And, in this sense, given how it fills gaps, do you think that Firewall is more "essential" than Panopticon for a starting GM?

I'd probably say Firewall is more essential, but I think the Habitats and Surveillance/Sousveillance sections of Panopticon are both very good at helping establish how the Eclipse Phase universe works.