Share all your known munchies/crunches/broken things in EP!

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CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Wow this one is new for me. I

Wow this one is new for me. I will show it to my group since we always bought the Skillware, Mental Speed Implants even for Cyberbrains.

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FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
A very good point

Benny89 wrote:
Narcoalgorithms (Drive, Klar, MRDR, Kick etc etc.), Eidetic Memory, Endocrine Control, Hyper Linguist, Math Boost, Memory Lock (p. 149, Panopticon), Mental Speed, Oracles, Parallel Processor (p. 189, Rimward), Skillware.

While you may want to buy some other upgrades for your body instead, think about it- if you buy any of those above- you won't lose them on egocasting. Also all plug-is can be "access immideitly" as per Transhuman.

So I think Narcoalgorithms, Mental Speed, Skillware (!) and Endoctrine Control are definitely worth to always get as software plug-ins at charcater creation.

Especially Skillware + Skillsofts. Think about it. You buy Skillware as software plug-in (same price) t egocast with you. Skillsofts are also software so they also egocast with you. Skillsoft cost 5CP and Skillware 5CP too.

So lets say your combat Char has low COG and you won't spend on COG skill anyway since you are combat char. You spend 50CP- Skillware, Skillsofts x 3 (40, 40, 20). And you have 100 CP worth of skills for 50CP.

And since all are software (including Skillware)- they always egocast with you. You can't improve them later (you wouldn't anyway). Choose skill you can take extra time on tests for bonuses and you are golden :).
Synthmorphs ftw I guess :/


I think that some of these wouldn't fly, though. Any of the above that's an actual *implant* would have to be installed in any body you inhabit, although you could probably get the benefits if you had an alpha in a ghostrider.
So, for example, with Oracles the primary ego is rolling around perfectly normal because the Oracles also (assumedly) improve the sensor systems as well. However, the auxiliary ego gets the full benefit while effectively being a security guard watching a camera feed.
Endocrine Control especially, since it's tied directly into a lot of other systems (such as damage compensation).

The only real exception I can think of is the Math Boost and Linguistics Boost, since that's basically a super cool TI83++, Excel, and translation subroutines in an emulated mind state.

Sudo drop your weapon.

FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
PPSPSPPPSSSPSPSPSSSPPPPS:

Pointing out the above ^ because not all synthmorphs are capable of emulating an *ego* properly, much less emulating brainware. FV had problems because it inhabited a Kyte - among other things, it capped COG at ~20 which was a serious bummer on its hacking skills.
For some odd reason, your brain can be too small to hold all your brains, but there is no such restriction on Ghostriders - which a Kyte can still mount, and per rules can mount as many as you want.
Hence, FV was my first character who relied strongly on forking, because 1 drove the bus, and 1-2 riders took care of hacking. IMO, ghostriders also count as separate cyberbrains for the purpose of upgrades (such as multitasking et al).

Sudo drop your weapon.

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Well the problem is that my

Well the problem is that my first thought was to buy 10 cases and fork my character with parallel processor. It would be 10 cases with +30 to almost everything.
Then again I have my doubts if Case cyberbrain could handle that big processing power requirement.
You would be basically installing Doom 2016 on a toaster... RAW it is legit. GM fiat may shoot me down.

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Benny89 Benny89's picture
FrivolousVector wrote:

FrivolousVector wrote:

I think that some of these wouldn't fly, though. Any of the above that's an actual *implant* would have to be installed in any body you inhabit, although you could probably get the benefits if you had an alpha in a ghostrider.
So, for example, with Oracles the primary ego is rolling around perfectly normal because the Oracles also (assumedly) improve the sensor systems as well. However, the auxiliary ego gets the full benefit while effectively being a security guard watching a camera feed.
Endocrine Control especially, since it's tied directly into a lot of other systems (such as damage compensation).

The only real exception I can think of is the Math Boost and Linguistics Boost, since that's basically a super cool TI83++, Excel, and translation subroutines in an emulated mind state.

Well, no. That would be house rule since by RAW it is as I explained based on Transhuman.

By RAW (to be precise by Transhuman) above ones can be aquire as software plug-ins for Informorphs. They can be EITHER physical implants (for morphs) or software plug-ins (for infomorphs and cyberbrains).

Takes one Action Turn to install plug-in, can be accessed immidietly (combat drugs OP!). By RAW all software/plug-ins/blueprints etc. (everything that is in your mesh inserts) egocast with you. And Transhuman says precisely that SAME rules for software plug-ins apply to Cyberbrains as to infomorphs (and they carry all those plug-ins with them). As long as your ego is digital- that's how it is. So no, you don't need anything else apart from really your ego to run those (even Endoctrine Control, which software plug-in for infomorph). As soon as you reseleeve (be it synth or info morph)- all software plug-ins boot up with your Ego (Windows :P) and work with your new self. Your ego carries programs that will start running as soon as your resleeve.

It's clearly stated in Transhuman so yea- everything above ego-cast with you and works because it's software plug-in, nothing else.

We can argue if it's logical/OP/broken/nonsense etc. of course but by RAW- this is how it works.

Benny89 Benny89's picture
CordialUltimate2 wrote:Well

CordialUltimate2 wrote:
Well the problem is that my first thought was to buy 10 cases and fork my character with parallel processor. It would be 10 cases with +30 to almost everything.
Then again I have my doubts if Case cyberbrain could handle that big processing power requirement.
You would be basically installing Doom 2016 on a toaster... RAW it is legit. GM fiat may shoot me down.

By RAW it's totally legit. Also by RAW- case cyberbrain is no different than lets say Steel cyberbrain in terms of having any software/implants capacity.

So yeah, go ahead, only GM may shoot you down here, but that would be just his bad will, since by RAW- your tactic is legit :)

FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
RAW means WAR!

The funny part is, I made a smuggler who brought egos over on the sneakernet. I had never considered packing her hidden ghostrider with narcoalgs.

Sudo drop your weapon.

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Benny89 wrote

CordialUltimate2 wrote:

By RAW it's totally legit. Also by RAW- case cyberbrain is no different than lets say Steel cyberbrain in terms of having any software/implants capacity.

So yeah, go ahead, only GM may shoot you down here, but that would be just his bad will, since by RAW- your tactic is legit :)

I would use other cheap synthmorph. Lemon trait is not really bad will from the GM's side, just... the universe's timing XD

And as I always say, feel free to break the game. Just remember... the GM has more bodies, resources, and (specially) a disposition to accomodate the players; after all, if you load yourself to the nines to be a killing machine, you certainly want a killing machines game, so... here, enjoy some "slightly" lesser clones of your combat menu! (with the thanks from the GM because you did all the work!)

DoomSmith DoomSmith's picture
Gonna rehash this one here-

More on how Synthmorphs are good for breaking the game- lets talk Flexbots.

A flexbot can create an arbitrary number of limbs with Extend Limb. So lets add 1000 limbs onto one for kicks and giggles.

Get them a Cyberclaw implant. Now, they have 1000 Cyberclaws for the price of one. Since these claws are melee weapons, they do not suffer from off-hand modifiers and act as a single attack roll. The drawback is that all of these extra weapons can only deliver a maximum of +3d10 damage. However, since all of the weapons are being used at once, this means that a successful roll will hit with each and every weapon.

We can exploit that by putting Eelware on the Flexbot. Normally, eelware only delivers a single shock-attack on touch. However, the rules for cyberclaws state that "if combined with Eelware, they can also perform electric shocks". Since that is shocks /plural/, This means that using RAW, each cyberclaw should be able to deliver a shock individually.

Since a single successful attack roll counts as hitting will all melee weapons, this means is that any biomorph being attacked will have to make a "DUR + Energy Armor Test" for all 1000 cyberclaws shocking them individually with Eelware. Failing just one results in being incapacitated for "A minimum of 3 actions", and, since there is no rules against multiple shocks stacking with itself, could be used to indefinitely paralyze a target. And even if it didn't stack, this whole process can be repeated the next turn, because "incapacitated" targets are incapable of defending themselves.

That basically wins any single combat versus a biomorph, so lets take on synths. Shock attacks don't work on synths, so we get around that with a Nanotoxin implant containing an arbitrary amount of Synth-only Neuropath. Cyberclaws can freely coat themselves in anything held in a nanotoxin implant, meaning all 1000 Cyberclaws will now be holding Synth-Only Neuropath.

So why Synth-only Neuropath? Every time a victim exposed to Neuropath, they must make a Willx3 test or be incapacitated. According to the RAW, a victim can be exposed to a drug when stabbed with a coated weapon, and a Nanotoxin (e.g. Neuropaths) is just a drug used offensively. Since all of the 1000 coated claws will hit on a single successful attack, this means that an enemy synth will have to roll a Willx3 test 1000 times or be instantly incapacitated. Even if they succeeded all 1000 rolls, they'd also have to suffer a -30,000 penalty from resisting all of it (-30 for all 1000 attacks).

Once you have all that onboard, just make a big investment in unarmed and moxie and use a point to bypass anything able to beat you. You do not need to worry about bypassing AV, because anything that fails the initial opposed test will be "hit" by the weapon, even if the damage it does is reduced to 0. And if it doesn't, use a moxie point to bypass the AV.

As I said last time: "Is this legal? It might be. Was it intended to be legal? Dubious. Will your GM allow this abuse? Either "Not likely", or you will be facing a /lot/ of Synthmorphs with Nanophages."

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ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
I read that armor caps at 32/32

Under the character optimization in the transhuman sourcebook.

If you spend all your points optimizing your morph and buying equipment, the first thing the Storyteller is going to do is have you egocast somewhere or go through port security. Even if you have access to a CM, you might still need materials that are unavailable or be under some sort of time constraint.

You generally aren't going to be walking around a hab with a rifle or two handed weapon without an AI detecting you on one of the cities spimes which will send a response team and initiate location tracking.

Thats why my combat focused character wears a camo cloak poncho, so he can conceal what hes carrying under his cloak. Worse case scenario, he is still packing 4 heavy rail pistols in his flesh pockets, and if he has to go through a scanner he still has cyberclaws and a drug gland that produces Twitch.

ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
What I'd really like

Is an option to remove a puppet sock from a cyberbrain.

Why on earth would anyone want one of these things? Even on high end morphs like the Galata or Steel morph, they are stuck with this useless fucking thing that actually COSTS money. It should reduce the cost of your morph, honestly.

I'm thinking of adding an gear option to disable your puppet sock for Singularity, figure it ought to cost as much or less to remove it as it would to install it. Otherwise you have to install a brainbox, which negates most of the advantages of having a cyberbrain.

ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
RAW is not RAI

Rules as Written is not the same thing as Rules as Intended.

If you insist on following RAW to the letter you are going to be a chronic pain in the ass and nobody will want to play with you outside of 40k tournaments.

DoomSmith DoomSmith's picture
Lets back up a moment here

I think you might be missing the point of this thread, Ring.

These builds aren't about making a good character that is good for a campaign. We're actually going out of our way to make characters any GM, and all the other players would absolutely hate. No one actually intends to play them.

That was a Munchkin build is. They are more of a thought exercise than anything- something that pokes fun at the loopholes in the system we play in, and also something that cues developers in to things they might want to clarify in the next release.

Everyone likes theorizing about builds like the infamous Pun-Pun, but no one outside elementary school will actually play them.

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CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
ringringlingling wrote:

ringringlingling wrote:

Why on earth would anyone want one of these things? (Puppet socks)

It is not necessary an implant. It represents the cyberbrains ability to be controlled by external force. You cannot remove it. Or rather removing it is a complex security and programming problem. It is a dedicated implant only for biomorphs.

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DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
ringringlingling wrote:Is an

ringringlingling wrote:
Is an option to remove a puppet sock from a cyberbrain.

A Hardware: Electronics check?

CordialUltimate2 wrote:
It is not necessary an implant. It represents the cyberbrains ability to be controlled by external force. You cannot remove it. Or rather removing it is a complex security and programming problem. It is a dedicated implant only for biomorphs.

Quote:
They also have a built-in puppet sock (p. 307) and may be remote-controlled, though this option may be removed by those who value their security.

Emphasis mine.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
ringringlingling wrote:Why on

ringringlingling wrote:
Why on earth would anyone want one of these things?

Your mileage might vary. To name a few options: Its good for disposable morphs. It allows a friend to provide remote assistance (to allow them to use your hands). Some people might not like dying, so remote controlled morphs might work best for them.

It is note worthy that you don't get aptitude bonuses through remote controlling; neither the puppet's nor your currently sleeved morph (including Eidolons). I find that for most morphs, half their cost is aptitude bonuses, so doing this is like throwing half the morph away. Not a problem for cheap morphs like the Case, but big time when used with Reapers.

FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Puppet sock

It's mostly a holdover from when synths & pods were used as drones instead of morphs. Headcanon is that the Sock is a standard component of most cyberbrains, and became something of a tautological part - so many systems are routed through it that you have to exert extra effort to rerout/remove. Alternatively, it's firmware and some hardware, routing your body's controls through your mesh implant. In that case, it's implanted because it's cheap in synths/pods (because what's a couple extra chips), but it costs for Biomorphs because *you have to design and implement an implant*. By that point it's left in by default because most people call it a feature - "Hey, you know that new Flexbot? You can rent it, or you can use it as a drone - same model, no extras, no change in cost. Sleeve Smart! Sleeve S-mart!"
And to be fair, there is still the stigma that people shouldn't be using either as morphs and they are called the poor-man's-morph. That's why the Stigma trait is attached. Most industrial concerns are still building puppets because either there is a market for them (like, say, one foreman in accelerated simspace forking and drone-jamming), or because there are alternative ways to use it (like having an override so your indenture doesn't go off the reservation with *both* your investments).

Sudo drop your weapon.

FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Puppet sock part 2, the re-partening.

With the above in mind, it makes sense that there are so many synthmorphs, but only 3 dedicated drones. They're designed as a drone first, and a body second. If you look at the Synthmorph list from that perspective, about 1/3rd of them are more drone than man.
The real question here is *why are they so expensive*? In-verse canon states that synths and pods are cheaper than biomorphs, but across the board they tend to cost more than an equivalent organic.

TBH, one of my problems with morphs as they stand are that pods are barely fleshed out. You've got ~3 humanoids, a couple uplifts, and a bunch of weird stuff. Pods are hugely useful from a practical perspective, they're a great opportunity for frankenmechs. Robocop is a pod.
Example: I tried making a pod called the Nephelim. In-verse it was literally a scrap-parts-pod (basically the torso and head were organic, the rest synth). By canon, this would be dirt-cheap and just barely above Case cost. Using the morph design system, the Ikea pod became more expensive than most biomorphs. So I scrapped that idea and made a pleasure pod into a battle bot for kicks...

Sudo drop your weapon.

ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
I see your point

Still, EP is not hard to break.

All you really need are the bloops for a decent weapon and a synth and you can fork yourself an army.

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Oh my sweet summer child...

Oh my sweet summer child...
You call that breaking the game. I call that everyday tactic.
When fighting Exurgents and TITANs, you cannot put any stops on yourself or you will lose.
At least that's my GM's style.
We are not stopped by accusations of powergaming only by aesthetic boundaries of the genre.

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ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
But thats just it, isn't it?

Nothing is more terrifying than fighting an enemy you don't understand. The TITAN's can wipe out humanity whenever they wish, and there isn't a thing anyone can do to stop them. Nobody knows why they stopped or if they'll come back.

Acknowledging that you are powerless is the first step towards understanding and defeating the enemy.

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
FrivolousVector wrote:

FrivolousVector wrote:

The real question here is *why are they so expensive*? In-verse canon states that synths and pods are cheaper than biomorphs, but across the board they tend to cost more than an equivalent organic.

It's called Gameplay and Story segregation (check TvTropes for the entry, but be advised that site is a black hole for souls!). At character creation, a synthmorph can really break the game into "efficient players" and "left-behind players", but once things advance it's fairly easy to go nuts. Remember the rulebook empahasizes a lot that the important part of your character sheet is "software" (information, skills, blueprints...), the bodies are a commodity you can change as needed.

So why the cost? Essentially because blueprints. mind you, nothing prevents you from start as an infomorph and a rented space inside an accelerated VR for designing your custom synthmorph, and buy some fab time to assemble it for yourself, keeping the blueprint... Or just go to the outer rim, get an open source templates database, and have a different synthmorph for each game, justifying the change by recycling the old model...

The first time I ran the demo module for the first Quickstart (Beware the WMS) one of my players bought about 150 CP in morph upgrades. I was kind enough to warn him afterwards about how great that was, and how hard to keep for missions it will be (first egocast = you will get a subpar morph always), but he cut through all enemy opposition like a hot knife through butter (it was a heavily combat-centered character). Now imagine he could do that even cheaper... Every NPC would need to, and all the other PC's would be forced to up the ante aswell, which is the problem with munchkinism: unless ALL the table is ok/wants it, it becomes a chore.

Benny89 Benny89's picture
ringringlingling wrote:Rules

ringringlingling wrote:
Rules as Written is not the same thing as Rules as Intended.

If you insist on following RAW to the letter you are going to be a chronic pain in the ass and nobody will want to play with you outside of 40k tournaments.

Disagree, I play broken builds since ever in RPGs with my friends and there is no problem as long as player playing broken build is not trying to steal the show in every scene. Which is something good player won't do regardless on build. My GM and my team believes RPG is all about fun. If one player enjoy playing broken builds- let him have fun as long as he does not break fun for others. In EP my combat moster simple mostly stays put, advice with military and spec ops experience, plans tactic for a team and monitor their mental health. Others have more role playing time and I am fine with it- that's balanced team. However when it comes to fight I can wipe the whole building with my Narcoalgorythms WIL/Software-plug-ins build. You don't have to invest into your synth morph at all apart from any armor upgrade (Industrial is +10/10 and is cheap af, heavy combat armor is plenty) and I invest in blueprints only. Also build is pretty much untouchable by GM because everything what is OP about this build is in his mesh inserts so even my backup has it all. So GM would have to kill me and my backup which is game over anyway :). But we have fun cause I know when to step down and let other players have fun and I know when I can step in and show glory of my build. If there are 3 players that enjoy normal custom chars and 1 player that enjoy broken builds- good GM makes that all can play what they want. Bad GM forces others to play as he sees it fit, which is something I understand when it comes to some unknown GM, but when it comes to people playing years together- that is just being asshole in our book. Playing RPG is all about middle ground.

Also as for puppet socket- of course it can be removed. I have found a cyberbrain/synth morph specialist who removed that from my synth morph. Also if I order custom made synth I also have it removed. I don't think there should be any rule for it same as with "can I remove eyes from my morph?". If something can be put in- it can be put out, like in any machine. And puppet socket is not necessary for Synth to work so we didn't see any reason for it not be removable.

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