My Whispering Muse - What Are You Hoping To See?

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Kojak Kojak's picture
My Whispering Muse - What Are You Hoping To See?

Just like the subject line says. What topics would you like to see covered?

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

Grim G Grim G's picture
Behavior

One thing I'd like to see a bit more detail with is muse behavior. I imagine a muse to be a combination mother and best friend who gives you some leeway when it comes to safety. Otherwise characters wouldn't be able to do anything illegal.

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
I moved this to General

I moved this to General Discussion as it's not specific to the EP2 Open Playtest.

Lurkingdaemon Lurkingdaemon's picture
Upgrades?

One thing that's interested me with Muses is the potential to upgrade them in ways beyond what Skillsofts could do. One curiosity I've had is whether Muses could be upgraded/merged with an AI package to enhance it's functionality (read: improve it's base attributes, in addition to gaining the skills).

Daemon-Dynamics Projects:
2nd Edition Morph Creation Rules


AdamJury AdamJury's picture
And for those who aren't

And for those who aren't quite sure what Your Whispering Muse is, it's going to start as a series of eight short PDF releases -- three to five pages each -- delving into weird aspects of Eclipse Phase, things that have been briefly mentioned but not covered in depth, stuff that hasn't fit into other sourcebooks. We'll use the first series of Your Whispering Muse entries to experiment with some stuff, try out some new authors, and drop bite-sized things for both GMs and players.

(Name borrowed/evolved with the good graces of Wolfgang Baur, publisher of Your Whispering Homunculus, a publication which we all really like.)

eaton eaton's picture
Seconding an installment that

Seconding an installment that explicitly explores the relationship of characters and their muses (and perhaps the experience of a muse-less individual in the EP world). Combining it with some muse-related plot hooks would be really cool.

LibraryDrone LibraryDrone's picture
I definitely want an

I definitely want an expansion on what precisely it's like to have a muse, how do they interact with you, how do they relate to you.

I'd love to see something on what the process of doing psycho-surgery on someone is like. I mean Is it purely mechanical tools that do the work, is there some component of the surgeons' mind interfacing with the patients? Kinda Curious.

Two words. Meat Hab.

Maybe something on Art/Music/Fashion in Eclipse phase. What does an art museum look like with this level of technology? A high society party?

Alternatively what does a day in the life of a Scum Swarm look like?

Something from the point of view of an uplift?

“Science fiction is very well suited to asking philosophical questions; questions about the nature of reality, what it means to be human, how do we know the things that we think we know.”
― Ted Chiang

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
I'm actually excited most by

I'm actually excited most by hearing they'll take submissions, as I'd like to take a crack at a story about the effects of an alien morph on a human's psyche.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Here's a question to just

Here's a question to just toss out there. Do muses retreat into the cortical stack when you die? Cause I can imagine there being huge continuity gaps between a person and their muse if that weren't the case.

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
I don't believe they do, but

I don't believe they do, but mesh inserts are also pretty tough, so retrieving them from those shouldn't be a huge problem.

I'd like to see something like the "A Day In The Life" sections from the Races of The Wild/Stone/Destiny/The Dragon sourcebooks for 3.5 D&D, but for various factions and locales in EP. I think those are some of the most length-efficient ways to spell out how a group "feels". Not sure how well they fit that format though, as I haven't read TFYWH.

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Adam I think the title may be

Adam I think the title may be misleading people on thinking this is a muse lore expansion when it is really supposed to be a slice of life and exotic topics expansion

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
People will learn, especially

People will learn, especially when the installments start to come out and have subtitles. Until then: that's why I clarified in-thread. :)

Kojak Kojak's picture
Personally, what I really

Personally, what I really would love to see is something akin to the Gun Heaven supplements from Shadowrun: a collection of branded versions of the existing generic weapons and armor with slight stat mods or abilities or what have you. I'll admit, I'm a total sucker for weapon/armor shopping when it comes to tabletop RPGs, and my group is the same: they love perusing the gear lists and kitting themselves out. This is something that, especially with the thoroughly fluffed nature of so much of the rest of the setting, always seems like an odd incongruity to me.

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

LibraryDrone LibraryDrone's picture
personally I know it isn't

personally I know it isn't specifically about muses, but I'd like one of those slice of life stories to be about the relationships between muses and the people they belong to.

“Science fiction is very well suited to asking philosophical questions; questions about the nature of reality, what it means to be human, how do we know the things that we think we know.”
― Ted Chiang

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
I would like to see entries

I would like to see entries describing the daily lives of people throughout the Solar System.

RampantRoomba RampantRoomba's picture
Kojak wrote:Personally, what

Kojak wrote:
Personally, what I really would love to see is something akin to the Gun Heaven supplements from Shadowrun: a collection of branded versions of the existing generic weapons and armor with slight stat mods or abilities or what have you. I'll admit, I'm a total sucker for weapon/armor shopping when it comes to tabletop RPGs, and my group is the same: they love perusing the gear lists and kitting themselves out. This is something that, especially with the thoroughly fluffed nature of so much of the rest of the setting, always seems like an odd incongruity to me.

Seconding this! Call me simple-minded, but the Fenrir morph was one of my favorite things from the expansion books. :D

The Reaper morph, the Arachnikoma, and the assorted spider tank enemies from X-Threats were pretty cool too.

Also, seconding the guy above who wanted more Meathab.

Aurell1an Aurell1an's picture
Second to the Gun Heaven style book

We need some proper flavour! Also reduce all pistols to SA with purchasable fire rate upgrades, replace the smg with a proper pdw so it actually serves a purpose, fix the fact that hollow points are better at taking out hard targets that armor piercing rounds, and make railguns properly devastating.

For those who like a little more crunch, I propose tiered implants. I know it's going in the wrong direction, given the new, smooth, simplified approach, but morphs designed from the ground up to have particular implants should be able to get more from them. Not much, but enough to be noticeable. Two characters, one in a Menton with a few augments, one in a baseline Fury, should not be an equal match in a fair fight.

"It'll be fine..." -my party as they watch a habitat with 50,000 egos aboard explode in their shuttle's rearview mirror

GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
Leetsepeak wrote:I would like

Leetsepeak wrote:
I would like to see entries describing the daily lives of people throughout the Solar System.

Seconding that. I feel this would help with a lot of preconceptions we have as earth bound society.
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
Not gearbooks

I know I'm going a bit against the current flow but I really hope that the series is almost entirely not gear. This series was presented as setting and I'd like to see things from setting.
For instance:
1) Popular entertainment, especially entertainment aimed at young people (give us something to hang quirks and obsessions off that aren't late 20th & early 21st century references).
2) Fashion in different places in the solar system. Seriously, how does Lunar style vary from Venusian from Titanian. It may seem minor but it would color things a lot.
3) Best vacation spots in the solar system (good for mission hooks)
4) Expand on muses, the interactions, codelines, popular avatars (ten most popular?), and upgrades.
5) The state of sports in the solar system? Do Martians play baseball? How has soccer changed? What's the sport obsession of the Jovians or the Ultimates (Aztec courtball?)? Sports are a major obsession of our species and I doubt that will change.

At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:I know I'm going a bit

Quote:
I know I'm going a bit against the current flow but I really hope that the series is almost entirely not gear. This series was presented as setting and I'd like to see things from setting.

That was my impression, too.

Here's an idea — a whispering muse installment that's just the transcript of a morning wake-up show, complete with news segments, bad banter between the hosts, and the feel-good segment where a guest shows off their Smart Cat's ability to cook omlettes.

"Good Morning, Extropia!"

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
As concepted, Your Whispering

As concepted, Your Whispering Muse, especially Series 1, will be pretty light on game mechanics stuff. I think it's pretty safe to say that most stuff in Series 1 will be edition-agnostic.

Baribal Baribal's picture
O tempora, o Ultimates

If you should pull through with making the Ultimates full-fledged fascists despite the feedback, I'd like to see the story of their demise as being told by an (ex-)Ultimate who got into the faction via seeing the best they had to offer, and then became more and more disillusioned.

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:If you should pull

Quote:
If you should pull through with making the Ultimates full-fledged fascists despite the feedback, I'd like to see the story of their demise as being told by an (ex-)Ultimate who got into the faction via seeing the best they had to offer, and then became more and more disillusioned.

Well, *now* I'm intrigued.
Kojak Kojak's picture
If we're talking about more

If we're talking about more fluff-heavy stuff, I'd definitely like to echo the call for a "Day in the Life" thing from the major factional perspectives. I'd also like to see more stuff about Meathab, yet-to-be-named Venusian aerostats, Martian "small towns", popular art, famous X-casters, and Nova York, in no particular order of preference.

"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head."
- Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop

Baribal Baribal's picture
ExoTech's report to the

ExoTech's report to the shareholders, 9 AF.

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

BalazarLightson BalazarLightson's picture
I want... well... everything...

A Day in the Life - Everyday stuff for different Habs.

Social - sport, entertainment, fashion, games, art, social networking, etc. Bigotry and uplift rights.

Legal - Exactly what legal frameworks to various Planets, Stations and Habs work under. What is legal in one is not in another, some more help on this. Late on your air payments again? Not a good thing.

Economics - Show me the money! How do money and power structures work around the system?

Psychological - Muses, Therapy, Psycho-Surgery, Brain-Hacks, WTF's really going on with Asyncs. No, really.

Scenario teasers - I love little hidden snippets that blow out into full scenarios or campaigns. News items, gossip, rumors. It's all fun.

Not interested in tech minutia of gear, but lots of broad strokes with fine detailed triptiches every once in a while to draw me in.

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
I'd like to see my name in

I'd like to see my name in the author section.

Laskeutua Laskeutua's picture
MrWigggles wrote:I'd like to

MrWigggles wrote:
I'd like to see my name in the author section.

Nice to know I'm not the only aspiring writer here :P

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Laskeutua wrote:MrWigggles

Laskeutua wrote:
MrWigggles wrote:
I'd like to see my name in the author section.

Nice to know I'm not the only aspiring writer here :P

I've hard various almost printed. I cant art, and I have not been in a position to pay someone to art. I also not in a position to go to any of the tabletop gaming conventions. The industry is small enough where its still, possibly, only important to meet folks in person.

My probably closest nearly printed was with Dragon Magazine. I gave them an outline for A Most Danerious game set up for dnd 3.5 with abstracted trap making rules. As that was being talked over, Dragon Magazine stopped their physical book, went digital only and that change 'perently meant that I was dropped, or forgotten.

Their are various lines that say they accept blind submissions, though they arent for games I'm familar with. But I tried sending out stuff, and got zero feed back. I'm not owed any feedback. But I have no idea if I was terrible, if it was looked at all. I've given up on working in rpg industry really. Though I still like to get printed. I probably wont get selected for this. It'll depend how many submission they get for each issue. Its 3-5 pages. So one page for the cover, legal stuff. Then the back page that has the listing of the Eclipse Phase line, and stuff about posthuman studio. Then maybe a page or two per article. So only 3-6 author per issue. Lets grant that every submission is of equal quality and equal relationship with the Posthuman Studios. And they get, only 50 submissions. So about a 0.06 to 0.12 percent chance to get selected. Or conversly 94 to 88 percent chance you wont get selected.

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
Your Whispering Muse releases

Your Whispering Muse releases are now specced at 4-6 pages (3400-5400 words) of content; that doesn't include the cover or legal information.

Laskeutua Laskeutua's picture
AdamJury wrote:Your

AdamJury wrote:
Your Whispering Muse releases are now specced at 4-6 pages (3400-5400 words) of content; that doesn't include the cover or legal information.

Neat, easily consumable packets - which speaks to a consistent release turnover.

Which I'm assuming means two things: you've got a stable of writers sorted and a reasonable backlog of content in case a snag is hit in the schedule along the way?

Baribal Baribal's picture
Jobs. What kinds of jobs are

Jobs. What kinds of jobs are done by indentures, which by free people, which by both? Why aren't those jobs already automated away?

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:Jobs. What kinds of

Quote:
Jobs. What kinds of jobs are done by indentures, which by free people, which by both? Why aren't those jobs already automated away?

This is a really good point. In past games I've explained the *inner* system's use of infugees by pointing out that there are really hard limits on AGIs after the fall, so indentured infomorphs are in high demand for analytical work, "soft skills" work that simple AIs still have some rough edges with, etc. It's not perfect, though, and i too would love to see some canon fluff around this kind of stuff!
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
Laskeutua wrote:AdamJury

Laskeutua wrote:
Which I'm assuming means two things: you've got a stable of writers sorted and a reasonable backlog of content in case a snag is hit in the schedule along the way?

We don't have writers for YWM yet, as we'll be doing an open call. But we have a contracting and production schedule worked out so an entire Series is produced at once, and then released according to schedule.

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
thinking about fake news bulletin

with different flavors, from the PC, the Autonomists, the Jovians, the Titanian etc
See the underlying memetics at work and stuff

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
eaton wrote:Quote:Jobs. What

eaton wrote:
Quote:
Jobs. What kinds of jobs are done by indentures, which by free people, which by both? Why aren't those jobs already automated away?

This is a really good point. In past games I've explained the *inner* system's use of infugees by pointing out that there are really hard limits on AGIs after the fall, so indentured infomorphs are in high demand for analytical work, "soft skills" work that simple AIs still have some rough edges with, etc. It's not perfect, though, and i too would love to see some canon fluff around this kind of stuff!

It depends what ALIs, like your muse, are. They aren't sapient. Though they can take Mental Stress. So they are capable of some limited empathy. This is also reenforce with them being able to act as your Pychologist.

But they must fail one of the AGI tests. I think its fair that they pass the Turing Test.
But they probably fail The Coffee Test, the College Test and the Employment Test.
In real life, there are jobs which are known collectiveably as HITs, or Human Intelegenc Tasks. These things are refining search engine results, or they work as final answer arbiter for things like siri. I dont know if Siri or Cortanna employ HITs. But other services like them do.

Laskeutua Laskeutua's picture
AdamJury wrote:Laskeutua

AdamJury wrote:
Laskeutua wrote:
Which I'm assuming means two things: you've got a stable of writers sorted and a reasonable backlog of content in case a snag is hit in the schedule along the way?

We don't have writers for YWM yet, as we'll be doing an open call. But we have a contracting and production schedule worked out so an entire Series is produced at once, and then released according to schedule.

I missed an important detail somewhere along the way then. I'll keep an eye out for this.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
MrWigggles wrote:eaton wrote

MrWigggles wrote:
eaton wrote:
Quote:
......
........

It depends what ALIs, like your muse, are. They aren't sapient. Though they can take Mental Stress. So they are capable of some limited empathy. This is also reenforce with them being able to act as your Pychologist.

But they must fail one of the AGI tests. I think its fair that they pass the Turing Test.
But they probably fail The Coffee Test, the College Test and the Employment Test.
In real life, there are jobs which are known collectiveably as HITs, or Human Intelegenc Tasks. These things are refining search engine results, or they work as final answer arbiter for things like siri. I dont know if Siri or Cortanna employ HITs. But other services like them do.

What is "The Coffee Test" ?

A slight smell of ions....

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Steve Wozniak proposed the

Steve Wozniak proposed the Coffee Test for testing AGIs.

You take your AGI robot put them in an arbitary home, they have no fore knowledge of. And they interact with the person there, who then ask them 'Make a cup of a coffee'.

Then the AGI figure outs the layout of the house. Finds the place that is the kiten. Finds the means that that kitchen has to make coffee. It washes the stuff it needs to. It grinds the beans if need to. It assemble the coffee maker and then operates it. Puts the coffee in a susitable container, or closest to, and gives it to the person that asked for it.

This tasked isn't time and it doesnt need to be good coffee.

https://www.fastcompany.com/1568187/wozniak-could-computer-make-cup-coffee

eaton eaton's picture
Every time I read something

Every time I read something like that, I think about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlP4Z_pWhKo

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
I know this might be obvious,

I know this might be obvious, but I'd like it if the supplements focused on what is typical and normal. Both because there's a lot of stuff that's so disconnected from our usual way of life that it might be hard to imagine, but also because knowing what's typical lets you emphasize what's atypical.

For example, how common is carrying a gun? It's a really simple question, and the answer to it tells you a lot about a place's atmosphere, but not because there's only one meaning to a gun. In the southern US, openly carrying a gun on your hip can be downright the norm in small towns, but in western Europe, the mere sight of a gun makes people nervous. So how should characters probably feel if they're from a given region when it comes to handling guns?

Does most of the system allow firearms to be carried, due to the lingering spectre that almost every person in the system died horribly in the Fall and now has some sort of major psychic trauma that urges them to protect themselves? Are guns heavily restricted because everyone lives with a thin barrier between them and the frigid cold of the void? How about peace officers? Are they allowed to carry guns in most habs?

These are all important questions, both for players understanding the setting (and the characters within it) and for PCs as actors who may require weapons to do their job. I also feel like it'd say a great deal about, say, Mars as a place if gun ownership is common among its city-dwelling population.

Likewise, what about water? How frivolously is it used by region? Luna is said to be desperate for it, but there's art in Sunward of animals frolicking in verdant jungle near a waterfall.

And so on.

The "How much does a given lifestyle cost?" section in Transhuman told me a stunning amount of information about the setting in an exceptionally small amount of space, just by saying what a low-cost existence amounts to.




[@-rep +1, f-rep +2]

Baribal Baribal's picture
Hulder Economics

Why are herding Hulder a thing? What do they harvest that couldn't be extracted magnitudes more efficiently by an industrial mining operation? Not that the Hulder would need that as a basis for living, it's the Titanian Commonwealth, after all, but how come that when they come in to unload their harvest refuel their bodies, people at the habitat in question don't go "Er, thank you, but all of you guys don't gather a fraction of a single mining operation, so there's no real need for you to drop that here."

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
One answer would be that the

One answer would be that the Hulder's caribou eliminate the need for mining operations (potentially dangerous and disruptive) by scrounging readily available surface materials, and that the animals themselves can act as roving chemical processing vats. Even in an age of nano-engineering, there are some things nature simply does better and more efficiently (or at least more easily).

When you have so many big, wandering biological engines, why not give them a hump that converts some of the organic materials they collect into useful compounds? The caribou might be an integral part of Titan's pharmaceutical industry.




[@-rep +1, f-rep +2]

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Mmmm Caribou Poop Coffee.

Mmmm Caribou Poop Coffee.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
On a more serious note

I find myself interested in the economics of nanofabrication. Where does feedstock come from, do you have to worry about different grades of feedstock or just the raw elements that you're able to work with?

If you have a CM and the martian outback, do you literally just scoop dirt into it and let the rust and silica get processed into useable steel and glass? I imagine this becomes quite different on say titan where metal is more rare but hydrocarbons are plentiful?

How well do item blueprints adapt? If a pistol is designed to be made out of steel, then trying the same blueprint in a Titanian fabber will probably run into issues. Or is the Fabber AI able to decide "oh, it's cheaper and just as good to use carbon polymers for most of these parts" and have the pistol still come out just fine, with a different set of materials? (this likely changes it's weight when you hold it, which could in theory adjust it's aiming characteristics)

A slight smell of ions....

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Feedstock should be as

Feedstock should be as uniform carbon blocks as possible. And the carbon blocks, are probably like 98 percent carbon by weight with some sorta bounding resign or some sorta housing. The CM on a mololecular and atomic level, then rearranges its composition to change its materiel base. You feed in carbon, it gives you steel. Its a slow and very energy intense process. And the more unstable the compound its trying to make, probably better to just give it that as a base. Like radioactives. The act of decay from uranium is more then likely enough heat, and physical distrubtion to be even slower and even more energy intense.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
MrWigggles wrote:The CM on a

MrWigggles wrote:
The CM on a mololecular and atomic level, then rearranges its composition to change its materiel base. You feed in carbon, it gives you steel. Its a slow and very energy intense process.

I was not under the impression that a CM machine is able to perform actual fusion to change the elements is has to work with. Letting them be able to do so sharply limits how much I as a GM can declare that there is some sort of element shortage at the moment.

A slight smell of ions....

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
"You give them carbon they

"You give them carbon they give you steel."

Nooooooooope

This would require ungodly amounts of energy. Comparable with creating antimatter, I guess.

Exurgents wanna eat your ass and you are low on ammo? Register to mobile gear catalogue at eldrich.host.mesh! ORDER NOW! FOR FREE PLASMA MINIMISSILE PACK! *explosive delivery options included

Baribal Baribal's picture
Media and communications from

Media and communications from and about the battles of Locus. The PC politicians gaming it out, the hypercorp press spinning it, the Anarchists counterplanning and -acting. An example of what's going on in participating people and societies at large when the pretense of civilization breaks down.

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Why bother with steel?

No amount of carbon will give you steel - but what you can get out of martian regolith are beams of nanotube-renforced sapphire and plates of synthetic diamond. In my personal cannon, the aformentioned sapphire is the primary building material used on mars, followed by resin-bonded regolith.
When I say Gemstones are dirt cheap in EP, I mean it literally.

That said, I would like to second the idea of information about the Cornicopia-economy. Details about the relative capabilities of Nanoconstruction tools and feedstock types (Basic, preprossesd, speciality variants...) is interesting and could be great for plot seeds.

Baribal wrote:
Why are herding Hulder a thing? What do they harvest that couldn't be extracted magnitudes more efficiently by an industrial mining operation?

Depends how you define efficiency - the TC has (iirc) a significant Preservationist demographic, and if you're measuring output relative to ecological/geographical disruption they're absolutely amazing.

---

I'd also second the call for "day in the life" segments, with the slight hope that the PC will be less "corporate hellhole" and more "gilded cage, new world order".
The Extropians are the corporate shills after all :P

I would still like to see some crunchy stuff, but geared towards more niche concepts - stuff for mercurials, brinkers and/or other tech+ groups - or otherwise expanding on concepts that are interesting but not universal enough to put in the main rulebooks, such as more complicated methods skills can be used.
I wouldn't put more than a page or two here though, the fluff-stuffshould always take precidence.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Meat Hab.

Meat Hab.

Also the every day for Ringers, Titanians, Venusians (the Canada of hypercapitalism?), and folks out in the Oort Cloud/Kuiper Belt.

But I am excited to read any thing Eclipse Phase related. So I am easy.

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.