Map

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Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Map

Will Sunward include a map on Mars? I was planning on doing one after visiting today the planetarium and checking on an exposition on the planet, but wouldn't want to do something that soon is going to come out officially. :)

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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

I would be very interrested!

I'm wondering which map would apply best:
the one in preface of Red Mars, Green Mars or Blue Mars?

I know I'm gonna use the place described in the trilogy (for exemple, I'm having Underhill filled with TITANs left overs. Screamers: The Hunting, anyone?)

my descriptions will also be carrying a touch of Armitage: Dual Matrix, for the buildings

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

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Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Map

Ok, I couldn't wait, so I did one from a current map of Mars.

1 – Mons Olimpos
2 – Ma’adim Vallis – Martian Gate
3 – The Zone
4 – Ashoka
5 – Elysium
6 – Noctis-Quinjao
7 – Valles – New Shangai

Have I made any mistakes?

The mind is information... hack it!
+4
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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

Here' s the map to terraformed Mars without the legend proper to the game

http://www.scificincinnati.com/images/blue_mars_map.jpg

and in color:

the map is based from Kim Stanley Robinson's trilogy's locations (and shown as exemple)
I'm of a mind ot use them in my EP games

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Map

I don't think Mar's terraforming efforts have advanced that much. IIRC, only thing they've been having important successes yet is in some minor zones and, specially, the creation of a more solid atmosphere. No?

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Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Map

Sepherim wrote:
I don't think Mar's terraforming efforts have advanced that much. IIRC, only thing they've been having important successes yet is in some minor zones and, specially, the creation of a more solid atmosphere. No?

Yeah. For the most part, Mars is still an arid desert wasteland. Terraforming has only really taken hold in the atmosphere and Valles Marineris, where 75% of the Martian population lives.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

so it's more like Cowboy Bebop (Stairway To Heaven), where Martian cities have atmosphere, even domeless, though the rest of the planet has a much thinner atmosphere.
Can anybody breath without a mask?
or does anybody not in ruster morph need to wear a pressurised mask/suit

by the way, I have a topic in "game world suggestion" where I ask about Elysium, but nobody has replied to it yet

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

browwiw browwiw's picture
Re: Map

It'd be really nice if there were something akin to a "Sci-fi Writer's Primer to Mars". Like the rest of you I'm pretty fascinated with Mars as a sci-fi setting general, but I just don't have the planetary knowledge chops to be representing in games and fiction in a realistic manner.

"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Map

Quincey Forder wrote:
so it's more like Cowboy Bebop (Stairway To Heaven), where Martian cities have atmosphere, even domeless, though the rest of the planet has a much thinner atmosphere.
Can anybody breath without a mask?
or does anybody not in ruster morph need to wear a pressurised mask/suit

by the way, I have a topic in "game world suggestion" where I ask about Elysium, but nobody has replied to it yet

Within the domes and at lower elevations on Mars (especially Valles Marineris, where most of transhumanity on Mars lives), people can very much breathe without assistance. Ruster morphs and alpiners are mainly needed for walking about on the unterraformed majority of Mars, especially in the southern Highlands and Martian mountaintops: where the atmosphere is thinnest and exposure to the Sun is strongest.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Maps: there is a Google maps for Mars, http://www.google.com/mars/ but it doesn't show the names of all locations.

http://planetologia.elte.hu/terkep/mars-mola-en.pdf is pretty good.

My own favourite is this one:
http://astro-natweb.wr.usgs.gov/Gallery/MapsAndGlobes/mars.html#MarsMOLATopoMap
and I have also used this elevation map for making my own terraformed Mars:
http://www.oera.net/How2/PlanetTexs/MarsElevation_2500x1250.jpg

http://www.solarviews.com/browse/mgs/mgstopo6.jpg shows the depth of Marineris, likely demonstrating where the bodies of water will be.

Apropos the state of the planet:

The lowest point on Mars is the Hellas Basin. If any air is getting dense or water accumulating, it would be here. So far I have not seen any references to it, which is a bit surprising. On the other hand, it is smack in the middle of the southern uplands which means that it will have long cold winters and hot dry summers - Marineris is going to be much more temperate.

My guess is that in EP people use supergreenhouse gases to increase temperature and get some of the frozen water into liquid form. This can perhaps be done a bit locally in Marineris, further improving the temperature in this natural greenhouse.

Terraforming Mars would involve the problem of getting a continuous hydrological cycle. The northern hemisphere is lower than the southern, and would tend to get most of the water. However, during winter water may accumulate as glaciers in the upland craters, getting locked in. The solution is to dig canals to get the water flowing out again (including restarting Uzboi Vallis, and maybe add a supercanal from Hellas to Isidis).

Extropian

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

shouldn't they meld the icecaps?
they master nanotechnology, so by using heating layer and microwaves they could do with within a few years. with the water evaporating and condenscing, it would form an hydrologic cycle by the mere action of the Coriolis forces

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Remember The Cant!

Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Map

Ok, map updated with the location of the Ma'adim Valley (not 100% sure it is right, but it should be around there more or less).

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browwiw browwiw's picture
Re: Map

Quincey Forder wrote:
shouldn't they meld the icecaps?
they master nanotechnology, so by using heating layer and microwaves they could do with within a few years. with the water evaporating and condenscing, it would form an hydrologic cycle by the mere action of the Coriolis forces

Yeah, but then you couldn't over charge people for water and livable real estate.

"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

well, you don't have to tell exactly how cheap it is, do you?
and it's not like they've got much of a choice, anyway: Earth's in ruin, and here they got the jewel of Sol, or at the very least a morph and a job.
(I know, I sound like a Hypercorps representant. Should I change my name to Parker Selfridge? :p)

more seriously, this protocol wouldn't ruin whichever organization is paying for it, you spread nano and let the nature do her job in accelerated.
you could also drop ice from orbit too, on the pole caps
it densify the atmosphere and saturate the atmosphere with vaporized oxygen and hydrogen, defacto creating greenhouse effect
you could also dig tunnels to the center and adds a ferous mineral from asteroids to the core as a coating of sort, or use hypraconductor ring down under, to give Mars an artificial magnetic field
Said magnetic field would need to be maintained (cost needy) but would do two things; it'd shield Mars from cosmic rays and keeps the atmosphere closer

about the map, which has the EP related adding? I'd love to see where are the dangerous zones, or where the destroyed habitat is, and the Pandora's Gate

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

Remember The Cant!

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Quincey Forder wrote:
shouldn't they meld the icecaps?
they master nanotechnology, so by using heating layer and microwaves they could do with within a few years. with the water evaporating and condenscing, it would form an hydrologic cycle by the mere action of the Coriolis forces

The icecaps would be almost the first to get rid off: they have a high albedo, so they cool the planet and by freeing up the carbon dioxide in them the atmosphere would get thicker and warmer.

Here is how I would go about terraforming mars with EP technology:

Build solettas/solar mirrors and put them in orbit around Mars to increase energy influx. They can be pointed at particular regions you want to especially warm, like the poles. I expect the Planetary Consortium to have several belt stations that manufacture solettas and send them in.

Cover the icecaps with low-albedo dust to make them warm faster. It could just be gravel, or it could be something a bit more high-tech like nanofactured dust that doesn't blow away and stays in place. This is going to be pretty industry intensive, but I guess that by 10 AF most of the melting has already happened. Lowering the albedo in general is also a good idea - lichens, nanomachines or atmospheric aerostats might help.

Build manufacturing systems for supergreenhouse gases like trifluoromethyl sulfur pentafluoride and perfluorocarbons (these require mining for fluorite ores) and release them into the atmosphere. Even a small amount brings up the temperature. In areas with plenty of carbonates they can be reduced to produce more carbon dioxide. Some parts of Mars are going to be crowded with fusion reactors and factories that make the Ruhr look positivity natural. Nanotech factories might look pretty odd, but a lot of the basics is till there because of the need to work in bulk. Guess where millions of truck-driver, process control and miner workers come in?

Another big industry would be deep drilling to get large amounts of geothermal heat to the surface or direct it to melt aquifers. There are likely some nice big ice deposits that need to be tapped carefully - some of the enormous regions of chaotic terrain attest to what happens when they suddenly collapse. Areas of thin crust include Hellas, Isidis and parts of Utopia Planum (although there are volcanoes in Tharsis and Elysium the crust is very thick there).
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v412/n6843/images/412220ab.2.jpg

Martian climate has a tipping point, where the current cold and dry condition flips towards a warmer and wetter condition. If the above efforts work, this has recently happened.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/fig1.gif
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/Image3.gif

That is good news since now water vapour can be used as a greenhouse gas too. But as I mentioned earlier, now there is a need to ensure that the hydrologic cycle works. Enormous channel building (maybe using thermonuclear charges, maybe using robot armies) to connect emerging glaciers with lakes. South of Marineris the Uzboi river from Argyre is slowly coming online seasonally, but most water is still lost into dry sand. And those aquifers will now begin to go unstable.

Seeding plants to make the air breathable, bind sand and form soil is a big issue right now. Most would be lichens and synthetic nanoconstructs that could work in absurdly bad conditions. Bioengineered algae that when dried up form tough spores that will bloom next time they find themselves in water are sprinkled across the planet.

The big issue, and one where I think a lot of debate is happening right now in EP, is water and nitrogen. Mars doesn't have that much native water, so even if all of it melted it would be a pretty dry planet. There is also very little nitrogen around, which would be trouble for building a lush biosphere. Plus that nitrogen is an excellent buffer gas - you don't want too much oxygen or carbon dioxide in the air, and most of the substitutes like noble gasses are even harder to come by. Overall, the terraforming needs all sorts of volatiles - hydrogen can be used to reduce iron (III) oxide to iron (II) oxide and water, hydrocarbon makes good water and ice, carbon dioxide, ammonia and carbon dioxide are useful directly. The best solution would be to import volatiles by taking lots of ice from the asteroid belt or outer system and drop it into the atmosphere. The political and practical problems are obvious and interesting.

Incidentally, this might be a nice explanation for why the Hellas basin is not heavily populated. It might be one of the designated impact areas for ice loads. Every few hours there is a comet impact, filling the basin with thick (if a bit ammonia laden) air and lots of dust. This also help break the crust there, freeing more geothermal energy. Having water seep down into cracks and boil away is a neat way of releasing water vapour as a greenhouse gas and get it across the planet. .

One big environmental issue on Mars is likely the UV radiation. Mars won't have a good ozone layer, making the sunlight rather dangerous. My guess is that the solution is just to engineer plants and animals to resist UV much better. Rising oxygen levels also make ground ozone a bit of a problem. Maybe there are plans for an artificial ozone layer? Similarly there is probably a lot of effort going into inhibiting the formation of clouds: right now they would be dangerous since they reflect energy away.

All in all, I think the current terraforming efforts are very technocentric rather than biocentric: people want results fast, and do not care if they are not natural. That means significant technological interventions everywhere to get the planet working (i.e. lots and lots of things that can go wrong, from soil reprocessing nanites going exsurgent to solettas redirecting heat and light to the wrong place) and a heavy need for big industry, massive monitoring and plenty of people. It is not quite taking the planet apart and putting it together in the right shape but if the PC could do it, they would. People committed to the original martian environment or slower, gentler forms of terraforming that are allowed to take their millennia are of course outraged.

For those interested in serious terraforming, I recommend Martyn Fogg's book "Terraforming" and his website http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/

Extropian

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

At least they won't have to deal with Earth's recentment and colonialist memes anymore.
it appears in all Mars centric sci-fi media. Total Recall, RGB Mars trilogy, Zone of the Enders, Babylon 5

Instead, there's anoter problem: eco-terrorism.
what length would Reds (those against Terraforming of Mars) go to stop the process from happening?
the things going wrong could be the doing of these terrorist cells. (that alone could work as storyhook for EP game sessions, and shows another existential threat for your sentinels to work against)

the anime mentioned above, Zone of the Enders (the Dolores, i series, I haven't seen the Idolo series yet), Mars is going through the early stage of Terraformation. There's water -albeit quite shallow in the boreal region, with algae producing oxygen at the bottom, harvested by riggs (the Links familly were rescued in one of these in the episode #13 "Die Hard")
Honnestly, this anime is source of so many story hooks rezady to use (with some adjustment)

on Terraformation, there is no real need to have a really high pressure or lots of oxygen in the air. all you need is to program the genome of the Morphs with genes from animals living perfectly with less O2 ratio. A solution akeen to it was used in Stanley's RGB Mars trilogy, since the second book (Green, if I'm not mistaken): the genetist used that gene in the longevity serum treatment

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Remember The Cant!

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Quincey Forder wrote:
Instead, there's anoter problem: eco-terrorism.
what length would Reds (those against Terraforming of Mars) go to stop the process from happening?

Ah, crashing things is so fun! Hmm, putting on my evil scientist hat, how would I mess up the terraforming effort?

The solettas: lots of potential for hacking their control, sending beams of light to the wrong places, messing with the weather or even getting them to go into the wrong orbit. Not a serious threat, but high-profile.

Redirecting incoming comet loads would be an even greater coup, and could do some serious damage.

The greenhouse factories: lots of energy from fusion reactors used to process massive amounts of decently reactive matter (flourine, anyone?) - what could possibly go wrong?

The hydrology projects: get the wrong aquifer to flood (Ashoka is in Ares Vallis, right?), or just attack an engineering team and get their landscaping nukes.

More subtle: nanomachines or viruses that mess up the ecology. That soil-binding crabgrass is vulnerable to a root fungus. What if someone engineered a high albedo algae that also broke down supergreenhouse gasses and thrived in the lichen symbiosis frameworks being used. Oops.

Extropian

King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Map

@quincy Why do you think the colonist memes wouldn't exist, I think that such memes and the new frontier memes have a perfet backdrop on Mars. For example I dont see the barsoomians as anti terraformers , I picture some of their followers as as ¨homestead¨ terrafomers that opposes a percieved growing corporate land grab and a conflict similar to the fencing of the wild west conflicts.

http://www.eclipsephase.com/how-do-barsoomian-nomads-support-themselves

Onwards to sabotage, evil hat
Some {sabotage or resistance attacks would to switch seed tm brands to domestic brands, switching soil nutrient canisters to toxic ones instead. or vice versa. The discovery of the successful attack appearing on spring, a long time later.

Both evil industry corporations and resisting ¨terrorist¨ homestead farmers, resulting to underhanded means.

More about the setting.
I think both western rpg adventures and victorian era call of cthullu ones, has excellent potential for EP deployment.

Certainly after some cosmetic relabeling, instead of cultists or deformed villagers, its singularity seekers or exurgent infected habitat workers.

Or the slave trade and slave plantages, its Wealthy¨plantage¨ corperations outfitting infomorph refugees morphs.

the victims of their ¨hospitality¨ ending up as a indentured rusting syntmophs at a sweatshop plantage, in a ¨frontier town¨.



"To find fault is easy; to do better may be difficult."
Plutarch

Sunchaser Sunchaser's picture
Re: Map

I love martian sci-fi but I always have difficutly really imagining it as a living breathing world. But this thread has some great ideas that sparked my creative juices!

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Mars is an interesting world. There are a lot of small quirks that make it exotic for us earthlings. Here are a few conclusions I have gained from my own extensive Mars-based campaigns in other games.

The lower gravity makes waves in water slower and higher; when it is windy lakes will become strangely choppy. Lots of foam.

The low gravity also makes convection weaker: fires will not strive upwards quite as strongly, chimneys have to be thicker and weather would tend (on a fully terraformed Mars) be rather ponderous (especially since the scale height of the atmosphere would be higher than on Earth: clouds and weather systems would be about 2.6 times higher). This in turn might make rain and especially hail heavier - but terraforming ijn EP is not there yet.

Terminal velocity on Mars would be lower than on Earth if the atmosphere had equal density. However, outside the low regions like Marineris, the thin atmosphere actually makes parachutes less effective. But base-jumping from the Marinerian cliffs ought to be an amazing experience.

Dawns and sunsets are going to be dramatic thanks to suspended dust in a high and now denser atmosphere. I expect that ice crystals produce complex optimal phenomena like halos, pillars or red light and spectral noctilucent clouds.

The sun appears half as large (area-wise) on Mars as on Earth. The moons Phobos and Deimos move across the sky but does not give much light in the night. Phobos is so close that it orbits Mars three times in a Mars day, moving faster than the planet below it. This makes it rise in the west and set in the east, despite that it is moving in the same direction as Deimos. The passage from horizon to horizon takes approximately 5 ½ hours. The apparent size of Phobos is about a third of the apparent size of the Earth’s moon from the surface but it is darker and potatoshaped, producing a bumpy crescent about as bright as Venus. It is so close to Mars that it becomes invisible from the polar regions. Deimos orbits further away and more slowly, a small grey-white crescent that visibly shifts phase during the night. All the other orbital infrastructure is also noticeable in the night and sometimes even in the day.

The beanstalk is visible from about a third of the surface, often quite conspicuous against the night sky when the top is in sunlight or sections of it are lit up artificially. It is visible from at least Noctis at the western horizon. I am unsure of whether it can be seen from Elysium.

Low gravity has some effects on walking and running - it is hard to walk fast, so people either walk at a stately pace or run. One can do amazing parkour in martian gravity, and melee fighting requires a bit of finesse: if you jump into the air, it will take 2.6 times longer to get down than on Earth - a bad thing, since that gives enemies time to hit you while you are unable to change trajectory. Erroll Flynn would certainly look great on Mars, but he would be dead. Real fighting on Mars requires having good traction at all times.

The eons of wind erosion has sculpted many strange rock formations in the uplands. Everything from suspiciously regular patterns of deflation basins, desert pavement, yardangs (long streamlined ridges), sharpened stones (ventifacts) to finely polished cliffs exist, and new surprises are discovered every year. Sand dunes are of course common and a problem; Gengineered kudzu can help bind them, but after a serious dust storm they can break loose or new dunes appear where they are least wanted.

There is a standard terminology for Martian landforms. They are today often used by Martians to refer to smaller features than they originally applied to; a Cavi might refer to a personal dug-out and Rupes to a cliff in a crater wall:

Catena: A chain of craters or depressions, often connected by underground rivers or due to a multiple impact.
Cavi: a steep sided depression.
Chaos: A region of broken terrain. Often caused by the past collapse of the ground due to subsurface
heating causing ice to melt and rush away in a flood.
Chasma: A very large linear chasm.
Colles: Small hill or knob.
Dorsum (Dorsa): A ridge.
Fluctus: Flow terrain; a region that has been shaped by past floods.
Fossa: A straight linear depression, usually of tectonic origin.
Karst: Rough sedimentary country with underground drainage.
Katabothron: Underground water-channel
Labes: Landslide.
Labyrinthus: Intersecting valley complex.
Mensae: A small plateau.
Mons (Montes): A mountain
Patera: A crater with irregular or scalloped edges.
Planitia: A plain.
Planum: A large plateau
Rupes: A major cliff.
Scopulus: An irregular, degraded escarpment.
Sulci: A network of ridges and lines, usually due to ancient tectonic upheavals.
Terra: A general region of the planet. Used today to refer to nations.
Tholus: A small domed hill.
Undae: Dunes
Vallis (Valles): A valley.
Vastitas: An extensive plain.

Note that the Martian landscape is very dynamic right now. The increased temperature and denser atmosphere is destabilizing a lot of things:

A water reservoir beneath the surface can become unstable and cause an aquifer to flood. Large regions can collapse nearly overnight as subsurface water makes its escape, producing landslides, ripping open new channels and flooding plains with mud and boulders. Sometimes the result is mud volcanoes, where heating in the deep cause pressure to build up until mud breaks through and causes floods.

Avalanches and Landslides are pretty common. In Martian gravity snow can accumulate on steeper slopes than on Earth, enabling highly unstable buildup. The energy involved is somewhat less and the movement is slower, but the effect of being buried beneath tons of snow or rocks is quite deadly anyway.

While there were some ancient clays around from the old wet periods, clay formation is currently racing as the new watery environment causes weathering and erosion. The new clay is often collected by streams into unpredictable banks and fills minor craters. This can produce the feared claytraps, deep holes filled with semisolid clay. During rainy periods or when a crater wall is broken a sudden mudflow can occur.

Quicksand is fairly common in water-rich regions: old dust deposits with rounded grains on top of aquifers often become saturated with water and will soften enormously if disturbed. Martian quicksand and mudtraps are less directly risky than terrestrial quicksand since the lower gravity makes sinking slower, but this adds another treacherous quality. It is possible to actually walk over some quicksand deposits before they liquefy, and some people have found that sleds or other equipment that they have placed somewhere during the night have sunk deep into the sand.

While hardly as dramatic as the pre-terraforming storms that could cover the entire planet, the dryness and temperature extremes of the southern uplands can breed dangerous storms. While mainly a local hazard in the deserts, they sometime roar over Argyre, Hellas or even into the equatorial areas. There is no place on the planet where fine, red desert dust will not powder rooftops from time to time. Even a light wind can make fine dust or snow to form drifts in the light gravity. It is not uncommon to have snowdrifts and sanddrifts even in good weather.

Snow is not as firmly packed on Mars as on Earth, and often stays powdery and loose. Great for skiing (although going downhill is more slow than on Earth), but getting through thick snow is hard.

Extropian

Octomorph Octomorph's picture
Re: Map

Arenamontanus, thanks for so much rich information! I see lots of stuff to throw in for my group the next time we run!

Sunchaser Sunchaser's picture
Re: Map

Let me add my own thanks! Arenamontanus' descriptions of Mar's moons alone was worth it!

I wish every sci-fi rpg included a first person common man perspective of his surroundings.

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Glad you like my little notes.

By the way, here is something that I have been thinking about: how does the martian space elevator handle Phobos? Areostationary orbit is 17,000 km up from the surface, far outside the orbit of Phobos (5,839 km up). So a big problem is how to handle the moon crossings. I think I can see two solutions.

The classical solution (thanks to Arthur C. Clarke, I think) is to make the elevator cable swing with a resonant frequency tuned to the Phobos period. Every time the moon passes by the cable is bent out of the way. Done right the gravitational force from Phobos could even power the swings.

The alternative is to have a non-equatorial elevator. Olympus Mons is 18.4 degrees north of the equator, so if the elevator is at a slight angle to the ground it will still point perpendicular to the rotation axis. Some complications with lateral forces near the ground giving the cable a slight bend, I think. Since Phobos just has 1 degree of inclination I think this produces plenty of safety margin (it would be cool to be in an elevator car and see the moon rush past just a thousand kilometres away)

Since the cable is at Olympus I guess the answer is just that the builders went with the second solution. So from a distance the elevator actually looks noticeably tilted and not quite vertical.

Extropian

nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Map

Or they could have just stuck a great big rocket engine on the moon and shifted it into an orbit where it won't hit the elevator.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

nick012000 wrote:
Or they could have just stuck a great big rocket engine on the moon and shifted it into an orbit where it won't hit the elevator.

Maybe, but it is impossible to keep a moon from orbiting through the equatorial plane and lifting Phobos out of Mars' gravity well would be very expensive (it is one thing to get small outer Saturn moons to end up around Titan using slingshots, and a completely different thing to lift a hefty chunk of rock nearly at the Roche limit).

A variant of the rocket solution is to tune the orbit of Phobos so that its precession around Mars becomes a rational number, so that it will cross the equatorial plane in only a discrete number of points that do not shift. That would allow it to co-exist with the elevator. But I think the cost would be nontrivial. Having the elevator on Olympus solves the problem.

(I just wonder whether the EP authors put it there due to cleverness or just because it was the highest point)

Extropian

Sunchaser Sunchaser's picture
Re: Map

Didn't Kim Stanley Robinson do the same in his Mars trilogy (and it got subsequently blown up)?

Sunchaser Sunchaser's picture
Re: Map

Hey speaking of space elevators...what kind of gravity, simulated or otherwise would you have at various points on a space elevator? Or would you be in freefall?

King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Map

I am also a fan of Aremntanous ¨essays¨, good work there.

Im a bit more cynical in my worlds,so I dont favor mega engineering in hard scifi, (though I am a fan of them). Thus I picture most engineering projects modest (even in a EP campaign), cost innefective & buroucratic burduned. Short term solutions and ¨fixes¨prefered over long term ones. Even with Micromachine technology, material printing & santa machines, red tape, proven technology and pessimistic pragmatism will hinder the pioneering or grander scale projects (despite them technically achivable).

Instead of melting the Polar ice caps in a direct grandiose way,they are melted slowly, with diffrent competetive methods. For example most of them have been dyed back or blanketed with black material (that also had advertisment on them). Come t think of it, that look pretty costly to for auditors. Perhaps its done ¨jonny appleseed style¨, done by ¨nomadic¨ homestead terraform collonists.

Also like the brief description information notes that, Eclipse Phase refere to the transformation period of a infected cell, My impression of this is that transhuman society is this eclipsing cell & exurgant the virus transforming it. I keep this theme regarding the transformation of mars, Its not yet achived, so most changes are almost unoticed. potentially springing up at any moment, players traveling through the same area at a later date find it altered & diffrent -though still not fully transformed.Alterations only apparent when compared to earlier versions.

The maps & weatherdata from a mars year ago, innacurate.



"To find fault is easy; to do better may be difficult."
Plutarch

jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Re: Map

I have to say: I'm as frustrated as you guys waiting for my Mars material to come out. I'm under NDA, so I can only drop hints, which sucks. :)

The Mars map in this thread is really good, except that Elysium is actually west of the TQZ, and New Shanghai is farther east (in the big basin/area of chaotic terrain at the eastern extremity of the Valles canyonlands). You can figure most of this out from the copy in Core, but piecing it together is a bit like solving Einstein's Puzzle (the one with all the Scandanavians and pets and houses and smoking), so good job!

I very consciously chose not to read the Mars Trilogy before embarking on the project. This might mean I repeat some of Kim Stanley Robinson's work, but I really wanted it to be something fresh and new as interpretations of Mars go. Cowboy Bebop was an influence, but only in terms of mood/atmosphere; most Martian cities have domes.

My research was all non-fiction. I drew a lot from Robert Zubrin, but I also understand that there are lots of people who disagree with his ideas. Good news for them is that the stuff I drew from him is in the background and easy to ignore if you like. Your map, if you want to color it, ought to be somewhere in the early stages between the Red & Green mars stages. I'm an optimist about the availability of water and the possibilities for exploitation of native Martian resources, but I'm pretty conservative about the pace at which things will unfold. And yeah, I did think a lot about the effects of low gravity, although I wasn't as extreme as Peter Hamilton in the Night's Dawn trilogy (where humans engineered for life on Mars are pretty freakish looking).

J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!
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Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Map

Thanks for the correction, I'll get to work on it as soon as I can find some free time. :)

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Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Map

jackgraham wrote:

I very consciously chose not to read the Mars Trilogy before embarking on the project. This might mean I repeat some of Kim Stanley Robinson's work, but I really wanted it to be something fresh and new as interpretations of Mars go. Cowboy Bebop was an influence, but only in terms of mood/atmosphere; most Martian cities have domes.

My research was all non-fiction. I drew a lot from Robert Zubrin, but I also understand that there are lots of people who disagree with his ideas. Good news for them is that the stuff I drew from him is in the background and easy to ignore if you like. Your map, if you want to color it, ought to be somewhere in the early stages between the Red & Green mars stages. I'm an optimist about the availability of water and the possibilities for exploitation of native Martian resources, but I'm pretty conservative about the pace at which things will unfold. And yeah, I did think a lot about the effects of low gravity, although I wasn't as extreme as Peter Hamilton in the Night's Dawn trilogy (where humans engineered for life on Mars are pretty freakish looking).

Have you read it, now?

I'm thinking about using some of the towns from the trilogy, like Nicosia, Underhill, but also the town from Cowboy Bebop, Alba City(although I'm not sure where it is. it looks like a huge crater hosting the city along with big lakes).

Where are located the quarantined zones like the one with Ebb 6 in it?

I like the way they did delimit the terraformed zone, a

Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R

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standard_gravity standard_gravity's picture
Re: Map

Perhaps in the year 10 AF, with bourgeoning terraforming, you wont have the same view from Mars, but I find this image quite awesome nonetheless.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/4542423536/in/set-72157623906890222/

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HackMorph HackMorph's picture
Re: Map

Thanks for all the wonderful information on Mars! I've been considering setting up my campaign on Mars, and this has been very informative. Does anyone recall how many domed cities are on Mars in the core book?
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jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Re: Map

Four (although two of them aren't exactly domed).

If you want to write more into your campaign, I suggest the Hellas & Argyre planitiae as good candidates for locating cities. They're both big, low lying basins that would see benefits from terraforming sooner than other regions.

J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!
  http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

jackgraham wrote:
Four (although two of them aren't exactly domed).

If you want to write more into your campaign, I suggest the Hellas & Argyre planitiae as good candidates for locating cities. They're both big, low lying basins that would see benefits from terraforming sooner than other regions.

They do have pretty cold winters, though. But especially Hellas ought to get decent atmospheric pressure and act as a natural moisture trap - I can imagine some interesting dam and aqueduct work along the edge catching the regular snowfalls and rains as relatively moist air get pushed up by the terrain. Shame on those barrier jet, mistral and downslope winds that make air travel occasionally risky.

There are so many fun places on Mars. My own favourite is the Uzboi Valles, a river valley stretching north from Argyre to Marineris. Once terraforming is finished it is going to be prime real estate - a major river stretching through scenic craters up to the flourishing-to-be Margaritiferian lowlands. Invest now, avoid the rush!

Extropian

Demonseed Elite Demonseed Elite's picture
Re: Map

You know, these posts make me think that a fun community project would be a large, fan-made Mars habitat in one of these suggested locations that we could communally develop and detail.

"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." --The White Queen, Through The Looking-Glass

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Map

Demonseed Elite wrote:
You know, these posts make me think that a fun community project would be a large, fan-made Mars habitat in one of these suggested locations that we could communally develop and detail.

Sounds good. Maybe worth its own thread.

I would suggest a location along the northern side of Hellas (warmer in the winters than the centre or south part). Maybe along the edge of or in Dao Vallis, since that is an area with water deposits and might become a fairly nice river once the hydrological cycle starts properly.This way it would have a good location as a base for terraforming work dealing with freeing and controlling the buried ice resources in the area. The habitat could make use of the canyon geography to create a warmer microclimate by roofing over some arroyos and side-canyons.

Extropian

Demonseed Elite Demonseed Elite's picture
Re: Map

Arenamontanus wrote:
Demonseed Elite wrote:
You know, these posts make me think that a fun community project would be a large, fan-made Mars habitat in one of these suggested locations that we could communally develop and detail.

Sounds good. Maybe worth its own thread.

Posted!

"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." --The White Queen, Through The Looking-Glass